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Live CD...

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Van Chocstraw...
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 7:09 am
Guest
ZDNet is promoting using live Linux CD's for banking, finance and email
internet activity. Spyware, phishing, keyloggers and viruses can't write
themselves to your CD drive.
I suppose you can still get attacked in live memory though, you think?
 
David Bolt...
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:02 am
Guest
On Friday 16 Oct 2009 14:09, Van Chocstraw played with alphabet
spaghetti and left this residue on the plate:

Quote:
ZDNet is promoting using live Linux CD's for banking, finance and email
internet activity. Spyware, phishing, keyloggers and viruses can't write
themselves to your CD drive.
I suppose you can still get attacked in live memory though, you think?

That wouldn't be much of an issue if you're booting up the Live CD just
to do your banking. In that case, you'd start the system with the Live
CD, go to the banks website, do whatever you were going to do at their
site, log back out and shut down. Unless you go looking elsewhere while
doing stuff at the banks site there wouldn't be any opportunity for any
malware to infect anything.


Regards,
David Bolt

--
Team Acorn: www.distributed.net OGR-NG at (no spam) ~100Mnodes RC5-72 at (no spam) ~1Mkeys/s
openSUSE 10.3 32b | openSUSE 11.0 32b | |
openSUSE 10.3 64b | openSUSE 11.0 64b | openSUSE 11.1 64b | openSUSE 11.2rc1
RISC OS 4.02 | RISC OS 3.11 | openSUSE 11.1 PPC | TOS 4.02
 
houghi...
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:40 am
Guest
David Bolt wrote:
Quote:
That wouldn't be much of an issue if you're booting up the Live CD just
to do your banking. In that case, you'd start the system with the Live
CD, go to the banks website, do whatever you were going to do at their
site, log back out and shut down. Unless you go looking elsewhere while
doing stuff at the banks site there wouldn't be any opportunity for any
malware to infect anything.

You can download a live CD for just that from the SUSE Studio site. I am
working on just that where the browser pops up and all you have to do is
select what bank and then go through the standard process. It will be
very user friendly and ther will be NO mallware on it. Honestly.
The CD is called MitM-Attack.(1)

(1) Almost finished. I just need to configure the keylogger and the
hosts file.

houghi
--
Quote:
Beware of he who would deny you access to information,
for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
Commissioner Pravin Lal: "U.N. Declaration of Rights"
 
David Bolt...
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:41 pm
Guest
On Friday 16 Oct 2009 15:40, houghi played with alphabet spaghetti and
left this residue on the plate:

Quote:
You can download a live CD for just that from the SUSE Studio site. I am
working on just that where the browser pops up and all you have to do is
select what bank and then go through the standard process. It will be
very user friendly and ther will be NO mallware on it. Honestly.
The CD is called MitM-Attack.(1)

This is where the issue of trust comes into it. You'll need to know
about a download location where you know you are you going to get an
unmodified Live CD from, and that you can check it to make sure it's
not been tampered with.


Regards,
David Bolt

--
Team Acorn: www.distributed.net OGR-NG at (no spam) ~100Mnodes RC5-72 at (no spam) ~1Mkeys/s
openSUSE 10.3 32b | openSUSE 11.0 32b | |
openSUSE 10.3 64b | openSUSE 11.0 64b | openSUSE 11.1 64b | openSUSE 11.2rc1
RISC OS 4.02 | RISC OS 3.11 | openSUSE 11.1 PPC | TOS 4.02
 
Patrick Phillips...
Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:36 pm
Guest
David Bolt wrote:

Quote:
This is where the issue of trust comes into it. You'll need to know
about a download location where you know you are you going to get an
unmodified Live CD from, and that you can check it to make sure it's
not been tampered with.


Build and burn your own little custom banking Linux distro for use only
with your online bank...be sure its based on Ubuntu, you could call it
something like BankBuntu Linux..least I don't think this ones been built
as of yet.

--
Patrick...
sig under construction
 
David Bolt...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:11 am
Guest
On Friday 16 Oct 2009 23:36, Patrick Phillips played with alphabet
spaghetti and left this residue on the plate:

Quote:
Build and burn your own little custom banking Linux distro for use only
with your online bank...

That's one good way of doing it. With enough effort, you could use kiwi
to create the appliance.

Quote:
be sure its based on Ubuntu,

Why would you want to build one based upon Ubuntu? Wouldn't creating an
openSUSE based one do as good/better? It's quite possible to do so
using susestudio and, with a list of the login pages for the various
banks, could be knocked up in probably less than 45 minutes including
the build and testing times.

Quote:
you could call it
something like BankBuntu Linux..

Or maybe BankSUSE?

Quote:
least I don't think this ones been built
as of yet.

Well, BankSUSE 0.0.1 and 0.0.2 has been built. 0.0.1 took just over 5
mins to build and, after making some configuration changes and saving
them for inclusion in 0.0.2, the second version was built. The total
time for building both versions was less than 30 mins, including about
10 mins testing, configuring, etc. A final build of a Live CD image
took a further 6:28 mins, and created an ISO image of 231MiB.

Now, I could leave it at that and let the user remember what the login
page is for their bank(s), or I could create a bookmarks file with a
selection of login pages for the various banks and create 0.0.3.

Finally, purely for those that have a susestudio account and can repeat
the build process, I started with a Minimal X server as a basis, added
the packages firefox, firefox-translations and
firefox-branding-openSUSE. I tweaked to the Firefox config and .xinitrc
modified to auto-start Firefox. Since it's using IceWM as the window
manager, there isn't an auto-login as there's an issue with the
keyboard[0] where a non-KDE/Gnome desktop is auto-loaded.

The same could be done using a KDE or Gnome desktop environment and
auto-login enabled without keyboard issues, but the size of the ISO
would most likely grow by 100MiB[1], and quite probably even more.
XFCE or WindowMaker could also be used, but these still suffer from the
keyboard issue and so no auto-login could be used.


[0] For some reason, as yet not fixed, auto-login for the non-KDE/Gnome
desktops leaves the user with an unresponsive keyboard. Returning to
the log-in screen re-enables the keyboard but, due to this issue, means
that auto-login can't be used for desktops other than KDE or Gnome.

[1] Total size for a KDE3 based BankSUSE CD was 344MiB, so that's
113MiB more than the lighter weight desktop version. KDE4 will most
likely be about the same, and Gnome may be a little less.

Regards,
David Bolt

--
Team Acorn: www.distributed.net OGR-NG at (no spam) ~100Mnodes RC5-72 at (no spam) ~1Mkeys/s
openSUSE 10.3 32b | openSUSE 11.0 32b | |
openSUSE 10.3 64b | openSUSE 11.0 64b | openSUSE 11.1 64b | openSUSE 11.2rc1
RISC OS 4.02 | RISC OS 3.11 | openSUSE 11.1 PPC | TOS 4.02
 
Vahis...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:36 am
Guest
On 2009-10-17, David Bolt <blacklist-me at (no spam) davjam.org> wrote:
<snip>
Quote:
Finally, purely for those that have a susestudio account and can repeat
the build process, I started with a Minimal X server as a basis, added
the packages firefox, firefox-translations and
firefox-branding-openSUSE.

I've tried it but I haven't played much with the Studio (never downloaded
or installed any of my cookings) so I'm asking a perhaps silly question:

Can the images be made USB stick ones there?

I've put Milestone Live images from Suse on sticks and they work just
fine but the netinstall ones have not booted, they seemingly need to be
put on a CD.

What kind of images can one create in Studio?

Vahis
--
"Sunrise 8:07am (EEST), sunset 6:03pm (EEST) at Espoo, Finland (9:56 hours daylight)"
http://waxborg.servepics.com
Linux 2.6.25.20-0.5-default #1 SMP 2009-08-14 01:48:11 +0200 x86_64
2:23pm up 25 days 21:03, 17 users, load average: 0.02, 0.08, 0.08
 
houghi...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:51 am
Guest
David Bolt wrote:
Quote:
Well, BankSUSE 0.0.1 and 0.0.2 has been built. 0.0.1 took just over 5
mins to build and, after making some configuration changes and saving
them for inclusion in 0.0.2, the second version was built. The total
time for building both versions was less than 30 mins, including about
10 mins testing, configuring, etc. A final build of a Live CD image
took a further 6:28 mins, and created an ISO image of 231MiB.

Same times here.

Quote:
Now, I could leave it at that and let the user remember what the login
page is for their bank(s), or I could create a bookmarks file with a
selection of login pages for the various banks and create 0.0.3.

Bookmarks file? That would be an option. I was thinking of a webpage and
have Opera launch that page in kiosk mode. Also read the KIOSK-Howto
again (1)

Quote:
Finally, purely for those that have a susestudio account and can repeat
the build process, I started with a Minimal X server as a basis, added
the packages firefox, firefox-translations and
firefox-branding-openSUSE. I tweaked to the Firefox config and .xinitrc
modified to auto-start Firefox. Since it's using IceWM as the window
manager, there isn't an auto-login as there's an issue with the
keyboard[0] where a non-KDE/Gnome desktop is auto-loaded.

I am going about it the same, exept I am working with Opera. Bit
trickier. I used the KDE 3 version, because of the known autologin
issues.

Firefox will be easier, but Opera in kiosk is a nice chalange as well.
I am looking at it for just my bank. To make it really secure, I would
have to limit access to only the corresponding banksite(s).

For security reasons, I would also need to run my own DNS server, as not
to get a man in the middle attack there.

Quote:
The same could be done using a KDE or Gnome desktop environment and
auto-login enabled without keyboard issues, but the size of the ISO
would most likely grow by 100MiB[1], and quite probably even more.
XFCE or WindowMaker could also be used, but these still suffer from the
keyboard issue and so no auto-login could be used.

Must find out why. To me this is still a bug. However I think all hands
are working on 11.2 for now.

(1) Must read stuff
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Kiosk-HOWTO.html Some nice tips on xinitrc as well
http://www.opera.com/support/mastering/kiosk/ on the Opera kiosk stuff.

houghi
--

You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building.
Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and
down a gully.
 
houghi...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 7:14 am
Guest
Vahis wrote:
Quote:
Can the images be made USB stick ones there?

Yes.

Quote:
I've put Milestone Live images from Suse on sticks and they work just
fine but the netinstall ones have not booted, they seemingly need to be
put on a CD.

What kind of images can one create in Studio?

5 types basicaly
1) USB stick/HD image. This is the default
2) CD/DVD ISO. This will warn to install the live installer as well
3) VMWare/VirtualBox (.vmdk) Not tried that yet
4) XEN Not tried that yet
5) Export your settings to Kiwi configuration

Besides that, you can add repo's like Packman, so you can make a liveDVD
with MPlayer on it. Or any RPM. You can also run scripts and edit files
and add files and ...

Well, almost anything

houghi
--

You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building.
Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and
down a gully.
 
Vahis...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:09 am
Guest
On 2009-10-17, houghi <houghi at (no spam) houghi.org.invalid> wrote:
Quote:
Vahis wrote:
Can the images be made USB stick ones there?

Yes.

I've put Milestone Live images from Suse on sticks and they work just
fine but the netinstall ones have not booted, they seemingly need to be
put on a CD.

What kind of images can one create in Studio?

5 types basicaly
1) USB stick/HD image. This is the default
2) CD/DVD ISO. This will warn to install the live installer as well
3) VMWare/VirtualBox (.vmdk) Not tried that yet
4) XEN Not tried that yet
5) Export your settings to Kiwi configuration

Besides that, you can add repo's like Packman, so you can make a liveDVD
with MPlayer on it. Or any RPM. You can also run scripts and edit files
and add files and ...

Well, almost anything


The live images of Milestones and now rc1 (oops, sorry, I'm doing it
again) are said to hybrid, that is they can be put on CD or on a stick.

The netinstall.isos are not hybrid seemingly, they don't boot if you put
them on a stick. Why? Or maybe it's just me...

How do you make a USB stick netinstallthingy?

Vahis
--
"Sunrise 8:07am (EEST), sunset 6:03pm (EEST) at Espoo, Finland (9:56 hours daylight)"
http://waxborg.servepics.com
Linux 2.6.25.20-0.5-default #1 SMP 2009-08-14 01:48:11 +0200 x86_64
5:05pm up 25 days 23:45, 17 users, load average: 0.16, 0.19, 0.19
 
houghi...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:28 am
Guest
Vahis wrote:
Quote:
The live images of Milestones and now rc1 (oops, sorry, I'm doing it
again) are said to hybrid, that is they can be put on CD or on a stick.

They say that where? It is not the case with Studio. If it should work,
perhaps it is a bug if it does not.

Here are three:
The disk image 1.1GB http://tinyurl.com/yzy9mjz
The ISO 320 MB http://tinyurl.com/ygzpwk8
The VM one 320 MB http://tinyurl.com/yftnenf

All are the same basically identical. Oh and try going to CLI (or run it
with init 3) Very Happy
ssh might be an option, for now. Also not yet restricted to just that
bank, so I am having fun trying to get to say playboy.com

Quote:
The netinstall.isos are not hybrid seemingly, they don't boot if you put
them on a stick. Why? Or maybe it's just me...

How do you make a USB stick netinstallthingy?

I don't. I make a live version, boot from that and then install from
there if needed.

houghi
--

You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building.
Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and
down a gully.
 
David Bolt...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:13 am
Guest
On Saturday 17 Oct 2009 16:28, houghi played with alphabet spaghetti
and left this residue on the plate:

Quote:
Vahis wrote:
The live images of Milestones and now rc1 (oops, sorry, I'm doing it
again) are said to hybrid, that is they can be put on CD or on a stick.

They say that where?

<URL:http://en.opensuse.org/Live_USB_stick#Procedure>

Quote:
It is not the case with Studio. If it should work,
perhaps it is a bug if it does not.

I've never tried it, so can't say if it would work. I build the disc
images for testdrive, and ISOs for local usage.

Quote:
Here are three:
The disk image 1.1GB http://tinyurl.com/yzy9mjz
The ISO 320 MB http://tinyurl.com/ygzpwk8
The VM one 320 MB http://tinyurl.com/yftnenf

I'll have a look at these just to see what the difference is between
your versions on mine.

Quote:
All are the same basically identical. Oh and try going to CLI (or run it
with init 3) Very Happy

Have you disabled the virtual consoles? Good idea if you have :-)

Quote:
ssh might be an option, for now. Also not yet restricted to just that
bank, so I am having fun trying to get to say playboy.com

Might try adding the specific hostnames to the /etc/hosts file and then
disabling name server lookups. That might be an issue with the
malicious website protection in Firefox.


Regards,
David Bolt

--
Team Acorn: www.distributed.net OGR-NG at (no spam) ~100Mnodes RC5-72 at (no spam) ~1Mkeys/s
openSUSE 10.3 32b | openSUSE 11.0 32b | |
openSUSE 10.3 64b | openSUSE 11.0 64b | openSUSE 11.1 64b | openSUSE 11.2rc1
RISC OS 4.02 | RISC OS 3.11 | openSUSE 11.1 PPC | TOS 4.02
 
David Bolt...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:23 am
Guest
On Saturday 17 Oct 2009 18:13, David Bolt played with alphabet
spaghetti and left this residue on the plate:

Quote:
On Saturday 17 Oct 2009 16:28, houghi played with alphabet spaghetti
and left this residue on the plate:

ssh might be an option, for now. Also not yet restricted to just that
bank, so I am having fun trying to get to say playboy.com

Might try adding the specific hostnames to the /etc/hosts file and then
disabling name server lookups. That might be an issue with the
malicious website protection in Firefox.

Scrub that idea. It would break many sites as a lot tend to have items
spread over a wide variety of servers.


Regards,
David Bolt

--
Team Acorn: www.distributed.net OGR-NG at (no spam) ~100Mnodes RC5-72 at (no spam) ~1Mkeys/s
openSUSE 10.3 32b | openSUSE 11.0 32b | |
openSUSE 10.3 64b | openSUSE 11.0 64b | openSUSE 11.1 64b | openSUSE 11.2rc1
RISC OS 4.02 | RISC OS 3.11 | openSUSE 11.1 PPC | TOS 4.02
 
Vahis...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:53 pm
Guest
On 2009-10-17, houghi <houghi at (no spam) houghi.org.invalid> wrote:
Quote:
Vahis wrote:
The live images of Milestones and now rc1 (oops, sorry, I'm doing it
again) are said to hybrid, that is they can be put on CD or on a stick.

They say that where?

http://lizards.opensuse.org/2009/08/05/hybrid-live-systems/

Vahis
--
"Sunrise 8:07am (EEST), sunset 6:03pm (EEST) at Espoo, Finland (9:56 hours daylight)"
http://waxborg.servepics.com
Linux 2.6.25.20-0.5-default #1 SMP 2009-08-14 01:48:11 +0200 x86_64
9:52pm up 26 days 4:32, 16 users, load average: 1.04, 1.09, 1.08
 
houghi...
Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:04 pm
Guest
David Bolt wrote:
Quote:
They say that where?

URL:http://en.opensuse.org/Live_USB_stick#Procedure

OK. So not one image for both, but one image that 'should' be possible
to convert to USB.

Quote:
It is not the case with Studio. If it should work,
perhaps it is a bug if it does not.

I've never tried it, so can't say if it would work. I build the disc
images for testdrive, and ISOs for local usage.

As you can build several builds at the same time on Studio, there is no
reason NOT to build both the ISO and the disk at the same time.

Quote:
Here are three:
The disk image 1.1GB http://tinyurl.com/yzy9mjz
The ISO 320 MB http://tinyurl.com/ygzpwk8
The VM one 320 MB http://tinyurl.com/yftnenf

I'll have a look at these just to see what the difference is between
your versions on mine.

Mine is KDE based to make the auto login easier. Perhaps installing GDM
or KDM might solve things.

Quote:
All are the same basically identical. Oh and try going to CLI (or run it
with init 3) :-D

Have you disabled the virtual consoles? Good idea if you have Smile

Yes and with Opera in kiosk mode, there is not that much you can do. I
could also turn off init 1 and/or all the others and it is not
completely hackproof. So you could do some stuff in init 1, then go to
init 3 or init 5

Quote:
Might try adding the specific hostnames to the /etc/hosts file and then
disabling name server lookups. That might be an issue with the
malicious website protection in Firefox.

On any browser I would think. I should be able to disable much more
stuff that is not needed.

houghi
--

You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building.
Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and
down a gully.
 
 
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