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| Hobby Forum Index » Pyrotechnics » Hardened Lead Balls For Ball Milling |
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| John Reilly |
 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:47 pm |
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I don't know if you got "ripped off" buying the lead balls from United
Nuclear. You certainly paid more for them than you could have bought
them at Dixie Gun works or other black powder shooting dealers. As to
the softness of the lead, that is relative. I don't know what scale is
used to rate the ""hardness" of lead or even if there IS such a scale
as exists for steels and aluminum alloy. I DO know that what you
bought is certainly usable as powder grinding media. I started out
with .690 calibre lead musket balls and they worked just fine. When I
needed more media, I cast melted down auto wheel weights, old lead
roof flashings, bars of lead from plumbing supply shops and even old
lead pipe from scrap yards. It works fine and is cheap or free, and
easily cast. I would suggest you assuage your feelings of being ripped
off by buying Lloyd's book (if you don't own it). You'll save much
more from his tips and experience and all your questions about milling
powder will be answered. I would think that United Nuclear must fill a
void in the market SOMEWHERE or they wouldn't still be in business.
After all "Caviar Emptier" (sp?) is still the basis of capitalism.
John |
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| rickyd |
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:36 am |
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I am an avid reloader, so I have access to all of the bullet molds that
I need. I have found the .50 caliber round ball mold by LEE and
available from Midway to work the best. For the lead I buy pure
linotype metal from Ebay. It is roughly a dollar a pound with shipping.
When milling pure white nitrate there is very little metal transfer
with this super hard metal, as seen from the still white end result.
I hope this helps you out.
Rich |
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| LT |
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:48 am |
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Sorry for the remark about being "ripped off", poor choice of words. It
just wasn't what I expected for "hardened" lead.
Thanks to you and to the others for all of the helpful advice.
John Reilly wrote:
Quote: I don't know if you got "ripped off" buying the lead balls from United
Nuclear. You certainly paid more for them than you could have bought
them at Dixie Gun works or other black powder shooting dealers. As to
the softness of the lead, that is relative. I don't know what scale is
used to rate the ""hardness" of lead or even if there IS such a scale
as exists for steels and aluminum alloy. I DO know that what you
bought is certainly usable as powder grinding media. I started out
with .690 calibre lead musket balls and they worked just fine. When I
needed more media, I cast melted down auto wheel weights, old lead
roof flashings, bars of lead from plumbing supply shops and even old
lead pipe from scrap yards. It works fine and is cheap or free, and
easily cast. I would suggest you assuage your feelings of being ripped
off by buying Lloyd's book (if you don't own it). You'll save much
more from his tips and experience and all your questions about milling
powder will be answered. I would think that United Nuclear must fill a
void in the market SOMEWHERE or they wouldn't still be in business.
After all "Caviar Emptier" (sp?) is still the basis of capitalism.
John
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| Mike Swisher |
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:02 pm |
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In article <11v6mqsg4aid9ab@corp.supernews.com>, LT says...
Quote:
Sorry for the remark about being "ripped off", poor choice of words. It
just wasn't what I expected for "hardened" lead.
Thanks to you and to the others for all of the helpful advice.
John Reilly wrote:
I don't know if you got "ripped off" buying the lead balls from United
Nuclear. You certainly paid more for them than you could have bought
them at Dixie Gun works or other black powder shooting dealers. As to
the softness of the lead, that is relative. I don't know what scale is
used to rate the ""hardness" of lead or even if there IS such a scale
There is - the Brinnell hardness number. See
<www.sizes.com/units/brinell_number.htm> for a quick overview.
Serious handloaders who cast their own bullets pay a great deal of attention to
the hardness of their bullet alloy. Saeco makes a hardness tester. Midway USA
sells these for $108.99, their p/n 193445.
Soft lead has a BHN of perhaps 4 or 5. A hard cast bullet alloy will be in the
18-19 range.
Quote: as exists for steels and aluminum alloy. I DO know that what you
bought is certainly usable as powder grinding media. I started out
with .690 calibre lead musket balls and they worked just fine. When I
needed more media, I cast melted down auto wheel weights, old lead
roof flashings, bars of lead from plumbing supply shops and even old
lead pipe from scrap yards. It works fine and is cheap or free, and
easily cast. I would suggest you assuage your feelings of being ripped
off by buying Lloyd's book (if you don't own it). You'll save much
more from his tips and experience and all your questions about milling
powder will be answered. I would think that United Nuclear must fill a
void in the market SOMEWHERE or they wouldn't still be in business.
After all "Caviar Emptier" (sp?) is still the basis of capitalism.
John
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| Tim Williams |
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:24 pm |
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"donald haarmann" <donald-haarmann@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:XLIIf.27642$id5.24073@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Quote: Solder? Solder for plumbing in 50/50 tin/antimony.
Typo, you mean lead?
Leaded also isn't legal for plumbing anymore, at least in most countries I
know of.
Electrical solder is usually 63/37 or 60/40 (tin, lead), while generic acid
core from the hardware store is often 50/50 or 40/60.
Quote: Lead free solder is 95% tin 5% antimony.
There are also copper- and silver-bearing alloys that have pretty reasonable
strength, as soft solders go.
Quote: Tin is A- very soft
I don't know about that, my used solder is pretty reasonable, having soaked
up some copper.
No doubt there, although not terribly bad compared to say nickel or silver.
But then, you need a lot of tin, too, and that's the problem! Probably
better off finding a source of antimony at that point. Or better yet,
antimonated lead alloy to begin with!
Tim
--
Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms |
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| donald haarmann |
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:12 pm |
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"donald haarmann" <donald-haarmann@worldnet.att.net
| "Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net> wrote in message news:eQuIf.129$tL4.66@fe04.lga...
|| Lead-acid battery alloy has more antimony in it than wheel weights (which
|| have a paltry 2.5% or so). I would expect linotype to be pretty hard, too.
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|| Definetly anything that soft is practically useless... if you want to get
|| serious you could mix it with some solder at least, and if you can find
|| antimony, it wouldn't hurt to melt that in, too. (Arsenic would be better
|| still, but well...yeah...)
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|| Tim
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| ----------
| Solder? Solder for plumbing in 50/50 tin/antimony. Lead free solder is 95% tin 5%
| antimony. Tin is A- very soft B- very expensive. Solder makes nice fishing
| weights, they don't turn black in salt water. Stay nice and shinny they do.
|
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A bad case of open mouth and insert foot! Checking Ullmann's I find —
A 15 241
Lead-Antimony-Tin Alloys are used for printing, bearings, solders, slush castings and
specially castings. These alloys have low melting points, HIGH HARDNESS, and excellent
high-temperature strength and fluidity,
Printing alloys generally contain more than 11 wt% antimony and 3-14 wt% tin.
Excellent antifriction properties and GOOD HARDNESS makes lead-antimony-tin alloys
suitable for journal bearings, bushings, and sleeve bearings...
Special lead-antimony containing 1-4 wt% antimony are used for wheel-balancing weights,
battery cable clamps, and collapsible tubes.
Printing alloys
Sn - Sb - Pb Brinell Hardness
Linotype 4 - 11.5 - 84.5 22
Electrotype 3 - 3 - 94 14
Sterotype 5 - 14 - 81 26
Monotype 7 - 16.5 - 76.5 26
Foundry type 14 - 24 - 62 32
Ammunition
Lead shot [not lead balls] is produced by dropping molten lead-antimony alloys
containing 0.5-8 wt% antimony ..... The shot contains arsenic in an amount
equal to about 20 - 30 wt% of the antimony content. Arsenic permits the
molten drop of lead to become round during freefall. Tin and cadmium
produce elongated shot if present.... Lead-antimony (0.5-3.0 wt%) alloys
are used for cast or swaged bullets.
donald j haarmann
----------------------
il n'appartient qu'aux
grands hommes d'avoir
de grands d'fauts
La Rochefoucauld |
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| donald haarmann |
| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:22 pm |
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"Tim Williams" <tmoranwms@charter.net
| "donald haarmann" <donald-haarmann@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
| news:XLIIf.27642$id5.24073@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
| > Solder? Solder for plumbing in 50/50 tin/antimony.
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| Typo, you mean lead?
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| Leaded also isn't legal for plumbing anymore, at least in most countries I
| know of.
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--------
No, solder is correct. While lead water pipe is no longer used, lead solder has
a long history of use to solder ("sweat") copper pipe. Granted - today lead free
solder (Sn-Sb) solder is mandated.
Poured molten lead/ rope oakum may still be used for DWV, though "hub-less"
cast iron pipe is a lot less work.
--
donald j haarmann
---------------------------------
The explosion removed the windows,
the door and most of the chimney.
It was the sort of thing you expected in
the Street of Alchemists. The neighbours
preferred explosions, which were at least
identifiable and soon over. They were better
than the smells, which crept up on you.
Terry Pratchett |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:19 am |
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After thousands of bullets (competitive, hunting and plinking) and
other castings of various hardness, I believe proper fluxing is the key
to hard lead media made from free wheel weights. Bee's wax is the
best flux.
My 3/4" media have shown zero wear after two or three years.
A three-foot drop to concrete does not leave a mark. Dropped to steel
does leave a slight, very slight flat.
This lead is far harder than I would ever cast for bullets.
I use a Goodwill single candlestick holder with a 6" handle for my 3/4"
mold. Just check for the proper taper and only use heavy, solid, one
piece, brass candlestick holders. $ 1.50. a Lyman (or Lee) molding
ladle just fills this mold. You don't have to smoke the mold. Fill the
mold, let stand for 2 seconds to firm up and dunk in luke warm water.
Often the bit of steam that forms in the brass will pop out the media
or rap the holder on a damp block of wood. Dry the mold under your pot
before casting. Several molds speed up the process.
Do not mix moisture and molten lead.
With practice, you can make 100 'balls' in an hour after drosing the
pot.
These work just fine in a Lloyd style 6" mill. (Thanks again Lloyd).
Lee molds!!! Lyman!!! But that's another old fart story. |
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