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| Johnny golden... |
 Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:27 am |
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Is there anyway to say what factors play a roll in how long it takes a
runner to warm up? Thanks to this group, I finally made the connection
between the lightheaded, dizziness I've always felt starting off, and
not starting out slow enough. Now I run really really slow for up to 2
miles sometimes (out of a 5 mile run) and it seems to work. Does warm
up time lessen with training? Is a matter of heart efficiency, lung
efficiency or the bodys utilization of the available oxygen? I notice
that most of the guys in a group I run with do not have to start off
anywhere near as slow as I do. Thanks. |
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| Johnny golden... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:23 am |
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On Nov 5, 10:40 am, jobs <jo... at (no spam) remove-deez-words.hotmail.com.edu>
wrote:
Quote: Tim Downie wrote:
"Johnny golden" <info.johngol... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:100a5f2f-a042-468f-be21-3a6fa95c484d at (no spam) f20g2000vbl.googlegroups.com....
Is there anyway to say what factors play a roll in how long it takes a
runner to warm up? Thanks to this group, I finally made the connection
between the lightheaded, dizziness I've always felt starting off, and
not starting out slow enough. Now I run really really slow for up to 2
miles sometimes (out of a 5 mile run) and it seems to work. Does warm
up time lessen with training? Is a matter of heart efficiency, lung
efficiency or the bodys utilization of the available oxygen? I notice
that most of the guys in a group I run with do not have to start off
anywhere near as slow as I do. Thanks.
I still maintain that taking so long to adapt isn't "normal". Your
experience with your running companions supports this. If you want to
My run times vary quite a bit from 6:30pm to 12noon. I dont think
eating is the issue. Even when I've eaten something carby an hour
before a run I can feel the same way. I think I agree with both of yiu
that another visit to dr is in order. Thanks.
Quote: get to the bottom of it you really need to see your doctor (again).
I second that. A 2 mile warmup within a 5 mile run doesn't seem very
normal, especially in conjunction with the other stuff you've mentioned.
A visit to the doctor might be worthwhile.
Btw, you could start the warm-up even before you start running by
moving/shaking your legs, maybe some jumping jacks, etc.
Just curious, what time do you usually run - morning? evening? What's
the typical time elapsed between your last meal and your run?
jobs |
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| Brew1... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:45 am |
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I need to start slower than the great majority of runners I've
encountered; however, the penalty for me starting out fast is in my
lower leg muscles, not anything like your symptoms. |
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| Tim Downie... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:59 am |
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"Johnny golden" <info.johngolden at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:100a5f2f-a042-468f-be21-3a6fa95c484d at (no spam) f20g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Quote: Is there anyway to say what factors play a roll in how long it takes a
runner to warm up? Thanks to this group, I finally made the connection
between the lightheaded, dizziness I've always felt starting off, and
not starting out slow enough. Now I run really really slow for up to 2
miles sometimes (out of a 5 mile run) and it seems to work. Does warm
up time lessen with training? Is a matter of heart efficiency, lung
efficiency or the bodys utilization of the available oxygen? I notice
that most of the guys in a group I run with do not have to start off
anywhere near as slow as I do. Thanks.
I still maintain that taking so long to adapt isn't "normal". Your
experience with your running companions supports this. If you want to get
to the bottom of it you really need to see your doctor (again).
If cost is a concern, see if you can borrow an "all singing, all dancing"
GPS/heart rate monitor that records your heart rate during your run. You
should normally expect to see a rapid rise in HR before dropping down to a
steady rate during your run.
It could also be casued by poor "reactivity" of your autonomic nervous
system. Normally your capacitance vessels (veins in your legs etc.) would
contract to increase the blood returning to the heart when you exercise.
However, if this was faulty then you'd probably have other symptoms like
"postural hypotension" whereby your blood pressure drops excessively when
you get up from sitting or lying down leading to dizziness. Of course that
happens to us all sometimes so it's a question of degree. Some drugs can
cause this as can some diseases like diabetes.
All these are of course "worse case senarios" and if you're happy just
taking it very slow for a couple of miles and aren't too concerned about any
possible underlying problem then fine, it's your call.
If it were me, I'd be wanting a 24hr ECG recording at least to rule out any
possible cardiac problem. A one-off ECG could well miss a problem that only
manifests itself occasionally or when exercising relatively hard. (Harder at
least than the level at which most "exercise ECGs" are performed at).
Tim |
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| jobs... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:40 am |
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Tim Downie wrote:
Quote:
"Johnny golden" <info.johngolden at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:100a5f2f-a042-468f-be21-3a6fa95c484d at (no spam) f20g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Is there anyway to say what factors play a roll in how long it takes a
runner to warm up? Thanks to this group, I finally made the connection
between the lightheaded, dizziness I've always felt starting off, and
not starting out slow enough. Now I run really really slow for up to 2
miles sometimes (out of a 5 mile run) and it seems to work. Does warm
up time lessen with training? Is a matter of heart efficiency, lung
efficiency or the bodys utilization of the available oxygen? I notice
that most of the guys in a group I run with do not have to start off
anywhere near as slow as I do. Thanks.
I still maintain that taking so long to adapt isn't "normal". Your
experience with your running companions supports this. If you want to
get to the bottom of it you really need to see your doctor (again).
I second that. A 2 mile warmup within a 5 mile run doesn't seem very
normal, especially in conjunction with the other stuff you've mentioned.
A visit to the doctor might be worthwhile.
Btw, you could start the warm-up even before you start running by
moving/shaking your legs, maybe some jumping jacks, etc.
Just curious, what time do you usually run - morning? evening? What's
the typical time elapsed between your last meal and your run?
jobs |
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| pithydoug... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:31 am |
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On Nov 5, 9:59 am, "Tim Downie" <timdownie2... at (no spam) obvious.yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Quote: "Johnny golden" <info.johngol... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
If it were me, I'd be wanting a 24hr ECG recording at least to rule out any
possible cardiac problem. A one-off ECG could well miss a problem that only
manifests itself occasionally or when exercising relatively hard. (Harder at
least than the level at which most "exercise ECGs" are performed at).
An EKG,ECG sounds good to study some obviuos problems and to establish
a baseline, but wouldn't stress test be the proof in the pudding?
-D |
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| EDWARD EDMONDS... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:13 pm |
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On 11/5/2009 3:27 PM, Johnny golden wrote:
Quote: Is there anyway to say what factors play a roll in how long it takes a
runner to warm up? Thanks to this group, I finally made the connection
between the lightheaded, dizziness I've always felt starting off, and
not starting out slow enough. Now I run really really slow for up to 2
miles sometimes (out of a 5 mile run) and it seems to work. Does warm
up time lessen with training? Is a matter of heart efficiency, lung
efficiency or the bodys utilization of the available oxygen? I notice
that most of the guys in a group I run with do not have to start off
anywhere near as slow as I do. Thanks.
How long have you been running? Did you just quit smoking or dipping,
or have you ever smoked or dipped? |
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| D Stumpus... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:43 pm |
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"Johnny golden" <info.johngolden at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote
Quote: Is there anyway to say what factors play a roll in how long it takes a
runner to warm up? Thanks to this group, I finally made the connection
between the lightheaded, dizziness I've always felt starting off, and
not starting out slow enough.
Dr. Tim gave some excellent advice regarding your dizziness, John.
Quote: Now I run really really slow for up to 2
miles sometimes (out of a 5 mile run) and it seems to work. Does warm
up time lessen with training?
I nowadays go very easy (100 heartrate) for 5 minutes, then gradually get up
to cruising pace over 30 minutes. The last half of my runs (typically they
last 1:00-1:45) are always faster than the first half. (unless I'm doing
speedwork or a tempo run in the middle).
In my opinion, the optimal warmup is around 30 minutes for me, for the elite
Kenyans I ran with once, and according to the research I've read. The
fat-burning pathways take about 30 minutes to fully warm up. And you burn
mostly fat when distance running.
However, I could run well on much less warm up when I was younger, and I can
do with much less when I'm rested. But you still burn too much glycogen at
first without a good warmup, so you will impair the length of time you can
run before depletion.
Quote: Is a matter of heart efficiency, lung
efficiency or the bodys utilization of the available oxygen? I notice
that most of the guys in a group I run with do not have to start off
anywhere near as slow as I do.
There are, to simplify, three main metabolic pathways used when distance
running: anerobic, glycogen-burning aerobic, and fat-burning aerobic. The
first takes just a few minutes to perform optimally, the second takes about
10 minutes, and the last takes about 30 minutes. Fat-burning is the most
glycogen-efficient energy source when running. When you run out of
glycogen, they take you out of the game  .
These adaptations mainly take place in the muscles, I believe. Tim, please
correct as needed |
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| Steve Duffield... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:15 am |
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On Nov 5, 6:13 pm, EDWARD EDMONDS <edward.edmo... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On 11/5/2009 3:27 PM, Johnny golden wrote:
Is there anyway to say what factors play a roll in how long it takes a
runner to warm up? Thanks to this group, I finally made the connection
between the lightheaded, dizziness I've always felt starting off, and
not starting out slow enough. Now I run really really slow for up to 2
miles sometimes (out of a 5 mile run) and it seems to work. Does warm
up time lessen with training? Is a matter of heart efficiency, lung
efficiency or the bodys utilization of the available oxygen? I notice
that most of the guys in a group I run with do not have to start off
anywhere near as slow as I do. Thanks.
How long have you been running? Did you just quit smoking or dipping,
or have you ever smoked or dipped?
Dipping? You mean chewing tobacco? Does anyone still do that?? |
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| Johnny golden... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:03 am |
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I guss to answer a bunch of questions at once, I've been running for
probably 8 years. But for the first 3 I was only doing 3 miles and
then bleachers. I did remember feeling things similar to my current
problem then but I wasn't pushing myself as I am now. I've had years
where I barely ran at all but over the last year (and more
specifically 6 months) I've been increasing miliage and frequency (3.5
- 5miles/nearly every day). I do ocasionally have a cigarette (a few
on the weekend if I have a drink) but it's a rare occasion. I've never
been a heavy smoker in the past. It's just interesting to me that, as
someone mentioned for them as well, I have my beat runs in the last 2
miles. I sometimes feel I could finish my five mile run with a
marathon! (ok that's maybe a stretch) |
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| Tim Downie... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:16 am |
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"pithydoug" <dfreese at (no spam) hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1e054c5a-a77b-47ca-882e-a88680fa33a2 at (no spam) g7g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
An EKG,ECG sounds good to study some obviuos problems and to establish
a baseline, but wouldn't stress test be the proof in the pudding?
-D
I could be wrong but I think In the UK at least most treadmill stress tests
don't move much above a walking pace so I'm not convinced that they would
necessarily pick up abnormalities that occur at more strenuous levels of
exercise.
Tim |
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| Tim Downie... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:18 am |
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"pithydoug" <dfreese at (no spam) hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1e054c5a-a77b-47ca-882e-a88680fa33a2 at (no spam) g7g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
An EKG,ECG sounds good to study some obviuos problems and to establish
a baseline, but wouldn't stress test be the proof in the pudding?
-D
I could be wrong but I think In the UK at least most treadmill stress tests
don't move much above a walking pace so I'm not convinced that they would
necessarily pick up abnormalities that occur at more strenuous levels of
exercise.
Tim |
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| pithydoug... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:48 am |
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On Nov 6, 3:18 am, "Tim Downie" <timdownie2... at (no spam) obvious.yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
Quote: "pithydoug" <dfre... at (no spam) hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1e054c5a-a77b-47ca-882e-a88680fa33a2 at (no spam) g7g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
An EKG,ECG sounds good to study some obviuos problems and to establish
a baseline, but wouldn't stress test be the proof in the pudding?
-D
I could be wrong but I think In the UK at least most treadmill stress tests
don't move much above a walking pace so I'm not convinced that they would
necessarily pick up abnormalities that occur at more strenuous levels of
exercise.
I can't speak for the UK but a stress test that doesn't stress is
still called a stress test? ;)
I had one some years back cuz i wanted to do one for the hell of it.
Don't ask How I got the script to have it done. Anyway, the test was
on the dreadmill with some predetermined max heart rate based on age,
planet alignment, shoe size, etc. It was NOT 180 - age. My max at the
time was calculated at 155. It was a series if 5 2 minute efforts.
Each of the two minute segments would increase the elevation by some
number of degrees(I never asked how much) but hold the pace constant.
The first level is totally flat for basic warm up or to weed out the
very obvious.. By the the time I got to the fifth elevation( you move
from one to the next without a break) my legs were burning. My HR
never got to 155 which was my max to pull the plug.
The test person during the introduction said most people don't usually
get past the second or at best third. She ordered a sandwich when I
told her I was a runner. Side bar - The two Rns doing the test were a
good 180 to 200 pounds.
From speaking with others this was a standard stress test setup. If
there is anything amiss it would be revealed by level 5. This was the
reason I suggested a stress test. It must also be an expensive test as
it involved a cardiologist and two RNs and some expensive machinery.
-Doug |
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| EDWARD EDMONDS... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:20 am |
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On 11/6/2009 11:15 AM, Steve Duffield wrote:
Quote: On Nov 5, 6:13 pm, EDWARD EDMONDS<edward.edmo... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/5/2009 3:27 PM, Johnny golden wrote:
Is there anyway to say what factors play a roll in how long it takes a
runner to warm up? Thanks to this group, I finally made the connection
between the lightheaded, dizziness I've always felt starting off, and
not starting out slow enough. Now I run really really slow for up to 2
miles sometimes (out of a 5 mile run) and it seems to work. Does warm
up time lessen with training? Is a matter of heart efficiency, lung
efficiency or the bodys utilization of the available oxygen? I notice
that most of the guys in a group I run with do not have to start off
anywhere near as slow as I do. Thanks.
How long have you been running? Did you just quit smoking or dipping,
or have you ever smoked or dipped?
Dipping? You mean chewing tobacco? Does anyone still do that??
I know it's still very popular with the Swedish:
[...Swedish snus is consumed mainly in Scandinavia. In Sweden, total
consumption was 6200 tons in year 2000. One hundred sixty-seven million
cans were consumed, of which 75 million (45%) were portion snus.
Approximately 1,000,000 people in Sweden use snus - 90% are men and 10%
are women. Approximately 22% of the adult male population uses Swedish
snus...] |
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