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| Gunny_2008... |
 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:25 pm |
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Guest
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I got this in the mail. Anyone know if this is just spam/urban legend or
real?
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FWIW,
A friend in the firearms industry had already told me these little
guns failed the CA DOJ drop test a few years back. The firing pin block
mechanism is apparently one that can fail. This summary of a trial verdict
this week in NE AL was forwarded to me by a friend in the legal community
this a.m.
Thanks to everyone for the congratulations. I've been asked to give a
short summary of the facts.
Plaintiff is a 28 year old business owner in northwest Etowah County.
He was leaving his home, headed to his store when he unintentionally dropped
his handgun. The handgun is a Taurus PT111 9mm Millennium, which he bought
in 2004. He had the handgun loaded, with a round in the chamber, with the
manual safety in the "on" position. It was also secured in a nylon holster
with a strap. When the handgun fell, it struck the concrete floor with the
butt of the gun. It discharged, striking the plaintiff in the upper thigh.
The projectile travelled in an upward direction, through his abdomen and
into his left lung. He suffered serious internal injuries, which included
losing his spleen. The first police officer on the scene found the handgun
with the manual safety in the "on" position. Once the handgun was
photographed and taken into evidence, a fired (spent) shell casing was found
in the chamber of the weapon. This was crucial evidence, because the manual
safety on this model handgun locks the slide and prevents the rearward
movement of the slide if the handgun discharges. This helped prove to the
jury that the manual safety was in fact on at the time of the unintended
discharge. Also, the manual safety has absolutely nothing to do with
preventing an unintended discharge from dropping (if you can believe that).
The defect in the handgun is the internal striker block (internal firing pin
block). This is supposed to prevent the movement of the striker (firing pin)
if the gun is exposed to a sharp impact (such as a drop). We actually were
able to record on video a PT111 firing a primed case when dropped in a
similar manner to our facts. The jury found that a defect existed and
returned a 500k compensatory verdict and a 750k punitive verdict. Plaintiff
had roughly 71k in specials.
There are still over 100k of these guns on the market. It will happen
again if Taurus chooses not to do a recall. Taurus PT140's and PT145's have
the same internal striker block mechanism. It is my belief that they will
also discharge if dropped.
Thanks for the inquiry.
M. Todd Wheeles, Esq.
Morris, Haynes & Hornsby
http://www.mhhlaw.net/
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| Slim... |
| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:19 pm |
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 02:25:56 +0000 (UTC), "Gunny_2008" <patmagroin_16 at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
#I got this in the mail. Anyone know if this is just spam/urban legend or
#real?
Apparently true.
http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20091016/NEWS/910169989?Title=Boaz-man-awarded-1-5-million
Boaz man awarded $1.5 million
The jury awarded the judgment to Adam Maroney in a lawsuit against Taurus International Manufacturing.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money."
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| Animeniac... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:53 am |
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My son has a PT111. Bought it used in the early '00s.
I like it. Not, however, if it has a defect like that.
Not being very educated on internal working of guns, I question one
thing. It is DA only, hammerless. A very firm trigger pull. If the
striker isn't cocked, how can it let go?
If this is all true, what can one do? Write the company for a repair or
modification? Wouldn't want to sell to an unaware person.
JR
Anime arimasu ka? (Got Anime?)
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| DT... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:15 am |
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In article <hcrtfm$s1k$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net>, otakuiam at (no spam) webtv.net says...
#My son has a PT111. Bought it used in the early '00s.
#
#I like it. Not, however, if it has a defect like that.
#
#Not being very educated on internal working of guns, I question one
#thing. It is DA only, hammerless. A very firm trigger pull. If the
#striker isn't cocked, how can it let go?
I can't speak for the Taurus, but in at least some other striker fired
pistols, like my Kel Tec PF-9, the striker is retained halfway back after
the slide is racked to chamber a round. Pulling the trigger moves the
striker back to full cock and the sear releases it. So it does have some
distance it can fall if the striker blocking mechanism fails.
Early versions of the PF-9 had a potential defect in which the striker
could slip off the block when the pistol was fired too quickly. In this
case, it did not result in firing a round, the striker just followed the
round into the chamber. From this position, (without the pre-cocking),
the trigger will not cock and fire the round, you have to cycle the
slide (ejecting the chambered round) and chamber a new round to continue
firing. Kel Tec resolved this problem and retrofitted older versions of
the PF-9.
Traditional double action pistols with hammers, such as the Walther PPK,
or my Ruger P95, can be refired as many times as needed, as the trigger
performs the entire cocking action without the need for a pre-cock.
--
Dennis
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| Gray Ghost... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:15 am |
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otakuiam at (no spam) webtv.net (Animeniac) wrote in news:hcrtfm$s1k$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net:
#
# My son has a PT111. Bought it used in the early '00s.
#
# I like it. Not, however, if it has a defect like that.
#
# Not being very educated on internal working of guns, I question one
# thing. It is DA only, hammerless. A very firm trigger pull. If the
# striker isn't cocked, how can it let go?
#
# If this is all true, what can one do? Write the company for a repair or
# modification? Wouldn't want to sell to an unaware person.
#
# JR
#
Don't most striker fired pistols "preload" the spring a bit when cocked. My
Glock's and Sigma's trigger pull feels different if I rack the slide and pull
the trigger as opposed to pulling the trigger a second time.
Just guessing. Scary though. I had a Taurus M85. It had a "transfer bar" type
action. The bar got messed up and the gun wouldn't fire. They fixed it and I
liked it but I couldn't bring myself to carry it again.
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| easyed... |
| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:15 am |
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I just checked the CA DOJ site and the Taurus PT111, PT140 and PT145
are approved for sale in California.
EasyEd
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| Blumenthal, Uri... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:28 am |
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Guest
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On 11/4/09 07:53 , in article hcrtfm$s1k$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net, "Animeniac"
<otakuiam at (no spam) webtv.net> wrote:
# Not being very educated on internal working of guns, I question one
# thing. It is DA only, hammerless. A very firm trigger pull. If the
# striker isn't cocked, how can it let go?
There is something fishy with that story and the lawsuit. And I still trust
my Taurus (observing that its safety system seems to work correctly).
# If this is all true, what can one do? Write the company for a repair or
# modification? Wouldn't want to sell to an unaware person.
Do write the company. It won't hurt.
# Anime arimasu ka? (Got Anime?)
Arimasen.
--
Regards,
Uri
<Disclaimer>
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| Wayne... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:42 pm |
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"easyed" <efblalock3 at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hcsnd7$6vt$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net...
#
# I just checked the CA DOJ site and the Taurus PT111, PT140 and PT145
# are approved for sale in California.
#
# EasyEd
#
Heh heh...don't know if that means that the Taurus is completely safe, or
that the CA DOJ tests are hosed 
--Wayne
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| Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley... |
| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:42 pm |
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Guest
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On Nov 5, 4:28 am, "Blumenthal, Uri" <u... at (no spam) ll.mit.edu> wrote:
# I still trust
# my Taurus (observing that its safety system seems to work correctly).
How did you observe that? (that it won't ever fire if dropped hard
with the safety on)
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| GeoW... |
| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:40 pm |
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Guest
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Is this a gang of attorneys working to put Taurus out of business with
some BS charge?
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| Petey... |
| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:41 pm |
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Gene Anderson wrote:
# On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 22:40:47 +0000 (UTC), GeoW <gwsears at (no spam) gmail.com>
# wrote:
#
# #
# #Is this a gang of attorneys working to put Taurus out of business with
# #some BS charge?
#
# Yeah right, they found some guy stupid enough to shoot himself to put
# Taurus out of business.
Well, there was that news story about that babysitter and the Jennings
pistol...;-)
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