"Greg Mossman" <mossman at (no spam) qnet.com> wrote in message
news:95f73841-06d7-4a58-ab1e-4ac0cba1b196 at (no spam) y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 5:42 am, John Hanson <jhan... at (no spam) northernlinks.com> wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 22:51:08 -0800 (PST), Greg Mossman
moss... at (no spam) qnet.com> wrote in rec.scuba:





On Nov 2, 7:49 pm, JRE <noth... at (no spam) nowhere.invalid> wrote:

Full disclosure: For whatever it's worth, I have a porthole frame from
one wreck (found loose off the wreck) and an iron spike from another
(likewise). I have seen but never disturbed human remains, and cannot
think of a reason I ever would, and I have yet to cut anything off a
wreck. But if I found something I thought worth saving inside a WWII
salt water wreck, I'd very possibly bring it up if I could, as the sea
won't wait and whatever bit of history it represents will be
irretrievably lost to everyone, forever, in not too many years.

Yet I just posted another article about people going around wrecks in
Palau removing human remains. To each his own. Me, if I found human
remains in a wreck, I'd probably snag a bone when no one else was
looking, take it home, and nail it on the wall next to my snorkel.
One of my fondest memories of diving Truk Lagoon was when I got to
touch a real live bone, but there was just one there and it would have
been obvious had I pocketed it. But not every shares my delicate
scruples - it's probably not there anymore.

I saw the soapified remains of a crewman in the engine room of the
Kamloops but I didn't touch him. I was told that those bodies are the
consistency of glue and that I'd get them "stuck to me" if I did touch
them. He looked much more solid to me but I still didn't want to
disturb him in any way. It's been his last resting place for 82 years
and I would think he'd want to be left alone.

Yuck. Fortunately salt water (and salt water fishies) makes short
work out of dead flesh. I don't believe there's any soul left in the
skeleton, which is why I have no problem touching bones, but
"soapified remains" that stick to you are another story entirely. On
the other hand, if there are any identifying features on your crewman,
perhaps he has descendants that would be interested in his location.

On a somewhat related incident, when we were in French Polynesia
wading in the warm shallow waters off a motu near Taha'a, I began
picking up various sea cucumbers to show off to Janna and my new
friends. To my surprise, one of them started squirting a white
viscous substance as if I had just performed a stellar hand job on
it. Even worse than my embarrassment at making the damn thing squirt,
it turned out the viscous stuff, that got all over my hands,
immediately stuck to my skin and was near impossible to get off (I
scraped my hands so hard I drew blood in several places). Later on,
thinking the ordeal over, I accidentally stepped on another one and
got the nasty stuff on my bare foot. Apparently the stuff is called
"cuvarian tubules". If sticky crewman remains are anything like
cuvarian tubules, you're damn lucky you didn't poke at him.

=============================================

don't get it anywhere near your eyes

"Greg Mossman" <moss... at (no spam) qnet.com> wrote in message

news:9003cc8a-7663-4de8-b055-70df494865bc at (no spam) z3g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 1:46 pm, "dechucka" <vo... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:





"dechucka" <vo... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:l_udnRpTYP4WEm3XnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d at (no spam) westnet.com.au...

"Greg Mossman" <moss... at (no spam) qnet.com> wrote in message
news:95f73841-06d7-4a58-ab1e-4ac0cba1b196 at (no spam) y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com....
On Nov 3, 5:42 am, John Hanson <jhan... at (no spam) northernlinks.com> wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 22:51:08 -0800 (PST), Greg Mossman
moss... at (no spam) qnet.com> wrote in rec.scuba:

On Nov 2, 7:49 pm, JRE <noth... at (no spam) nowhere.invalid> wrote:

Full disclosure: For whatever it's worth, I have a porthole frame
from
one wreck (found loose off the wreck) and an iron spike from another
(likewise). I have seen but never disturbed human remains, and
cannot
think of a reason I ever would, and I have yet to cut anything off a
wreck. But if I found something I thought worth saving inside a WWII
salt water wreck, I'd very possibly bring it up if I could, as the
sea
won't wait and whatever bit of history it represents will be
irretrievably lost to everyone, forever, in not too many years.

Yet I just posted another article about people going around wrecks in
Palau removing human remains. To each his own. Me, if I found human
remains in a wreck, I'd probably snag a bone when no one else was
looking, take it home, and nail it on the wall next to my snorkel.
One of my fondest memories of diving Truk Lagoon was when I got to
touch a real live bone, but there was just one there and it would have
been obvious had I pocketed it. But not every shares my delicate
scruples - it's probably not there anymore.

I saw the soapified remains of a crewman in the engine room of the
Kamloops but I didn't touch him. I was told that those bodies are the
consistency of glue and that I'd get them "stuck to me" if I did touch
them. He looked much more solid to me but I still didn't want to
disturb him in any way. It's been his last resting place for 82 years
and I would think he'd want to be left alone.

Yuck. Fortunately salt water (and salt water fishies) makes short
work out of dead flesh. I don't believe there's any soul left in the
skeleton, which is why I have no problem touching bones, but
"soapified remains" that stick to you are another story entirely. On
the other hand, if there are any identifying features on your crewman,
perhaps he has descendants that would be interested in his location.

On a somewhat related incident, when we were in French Polynesia
wading in the warm shallow waters off a motu near Taha'a, I began
picking up various sea cucumbers to show off to Janna and my new
friends. To my surprise, one of them started squirting a white
viscous substance as if I had just performed a stellar hand job on
it. Even worse than my embarrassment at making the damn thing squirt,
it turned out the viscous stuff, that got all over my hands,
immediately stuck to my skin and was near impossible to get off (I
scraped my hands so hard I drew blood in several places). Later on,
thinking the ordeal over, I accidentally stepped on another one and
got the nasty stuff on my bare foot. Apparently the stuff is called
"cuvarian tubules". If sticky crewman remains are anything like
cuvarian tubules, you're damn lucky you didn't poke at him.

============================================
don't get it anywhere near your eyes

further to my commentshttp://library.thinkquest.org/C007974/2_1scs.htm

Interesting that it's a poison.  I felt pretty lousy the next day, but
chalked it up to all the tropical sun and drinks we were absorbing as
we played with the sea cucumbers.  I'm very glad I didn't stick it in
my eye.

===================================================
not sure how poisonous it is if you just get it on your skin as people seem
to get it on their skin quite often with no ill effect. I was warned years
ago not to get it anywhere near my eyes as it could cause stinging. Maybe
different species are more toxic

And regardless of how many war dead are in places where the locations and
situations are logged, creeps picking up bones off war graves is wrong.

Period.

Scott wrote:
"El Stroko Guapo" <omgray at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:TpSdnS2068H9-m3XnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...


Most of the human remains from war graves are in university stashes, not
garages.


Bullshit.

The Smithsonian Institution has 18,600. No one else will disclose how many
bodies they have stashed away, not even under the federally-mandated
NAGPRA inventory, but the big archeology universities in the US must have
at least 200,000 maybe a half-million. Then there's all the
looters-for-science in Mexico, Germany, UK, figure another half-million.

If you went to bury all the university and museum corpses you'd run out of
space.

"dechucka" <vo... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:l_udnRpTYP4WEm3XnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d at (no spam) westnet.com.au...







"Greg Mossman" <moss... at (no spam) qnet.com> wrote in message
news:95f73841-06d7-4a58-ab1e-4ac0cba1b196 at (no spam) y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 5:42 am, John Hanson <jhan... at (no spam) northernlinks.com> wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 22:51:08 -0800 (PST), Greg Mossman
moss... at (no spam) qnet.com> wrote in rec.scuba:

On Nov 2, 7:49 pm, JRE <noth... at (no spam) nowhere.invalid> wrote:

Full disclosure: For whatever it's worth, I have a porthole frame
from
one wreck (found loose off the wreck) and an iron spike from another
(likewise). I have seen but never disturbed human remains, and
cannot
think of a reason I ever would, and I have yet to cut anything off a
wreck. But if I found something I thought worth saving inside a WWII
salt water wreck, I'd very possibly bring it up if I could, as the
sea
won't wait and whatever bit of history it represents will be
irretrievably lost to everyone, forever, in not too many years.

Yet I just posted another article about people going around wrecks in
Palau removing human remains. To each his own. Me, if I found human
remains in a wreck, I'd probably snag a bone when no one else was
looking, take it home, and nail it on the wall next to my snorkel.
One of my fondest memories of diving Truk Lagoon was when I got to
touch a real live bone, but there was just one there and it would have
been obvious had I pocketed it. But not every shares my delicate
scruples - it's probably not there anymore.

I saw the soapified remains of a crewman in the engine room of the
Kamloops but I didn't touch him. I was told that those bodies are the
consistency of glue and that I'd get them "stuck to me" if I did touch
them. He looked much more solid to me but I still didn't want to
disturb him in any way. It's been his last resting place for 82 years
and I would think he'd want to be left alone.

Yuck. Fortunately salt water (and salt water fishies) makes short
work out of dead flesh. I don't believe there's any soul left in the
skeleton, which is why I have no problem touching bones, but
"soapified remains" that stick to you are another story entirely. On
the other hand, if there are any identifying features on your crewman,
perhaps he has descendants that would be interested in his location.

On a somewhat related incident, when we were in French Polynesia
wading in the warm shallow waters off a motu near Taha'a, I began
picking up various sea cucumbers to show off to Janna and my new
friends. To my surprise, one of them started squirting a white
viscous substance as if I had just performed a stellar hand job on
it. Even worse than my embarrassment at making the damn thing squirt,
it turned out the viscous stuff, that got all over my hands,
immediately stuck to my skin and was near impossible to get off (I
scraped my hands so hard I drew blood in several places). Later on,
thinking the ordeal over, I accidentally stepped on another one and
got the nasty stuff on my bare foot. Apparently the stuff is called
"cuvarian tubules". If sticky crewman remains are anything like
cuvarian tubules, you're damn lucky you didn't poke at him.

=============================================

don't get it anywhere near your eyes

further to my commentshttp://library.thinkquest.org/C007974/2_1scs.htm

"El Stroko Guapo" <omgray at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nsadnQndVYq2BG3XnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

Scott wrote:

"El Stroko Guapo" <omgray at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:TpSdnS2068H9-m3XnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...



Most of the human remains from war graves are in university stashes, not
garages.


Bullshit.

The Smithsonian Institution has 18,600. No one else will disclose how many
bodies they have stashed away, not even under the federally-mandated
NAGPRA inventory, but the big archeology universities in the US must have
at least 200,000 maybe a half-million. Then there's all the
looters-for-science in Mexico, Germany, UK, figure another half-million.

If you went to bury all the university and museum corpses you'd run out of
space.


That's not what you said.

You said "Most of the human remains from war graves are in university
stashes, not garages."

http://www.cem.va.gov/ start here. Then check the numbers on European and
Pacific soils.

Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act deals with Native
American Remains, not war graves or the looters thereof.

And regardless of how many war dead are in places where the locations and
situations are logged, creeps picking up bones off war graves is wrong.

Period.

Those in university "archives" are required by law to be returned, so why
aren't they?


Oh, you mean officially dead combatants of officially declared wars on

On Nov 3, 5:42 am, John Hanson <jhan... at (no spam) northernlinks.com> wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 22:51:08 -0800 (PST), Greg Mossman
moss... at (no spam) qnet.com> wrote in rec.scuba:





On Nov 2, 7:49 pm, JRE <noth... at (no spam) nowhere.invalid> wrote:

Full disclosure: For whatever it's worth, I have a porthole frame from
one wreck (found loose off the wreck) and an iron spike from another
(likewise).  I have seen but never disturbed human remains, and cannot
think of a reason I ever would, and I have yet to cut anything off a
wreck.  But if I found something I thought worth saving inside a WWII
salt water wreck, I'd very possibly bring it up if I could, as the sea
won't wait and whatever bit of history it represents will be
irretrievably lost to everyone, forever, in not too many years.

Yet I just posted another article about people going around wrecks in
Palau removing human remains.  To each his own.  Me, if I found human
remains in a wreck, I'd probably snag a bone when no one else was
looking, take it home, and nail it on the wall next to my snorkel.
One of my fondest memories of diving Truk Lagoon was when I got to
touch a real live bone, but there was just one there and it would have
been obvious had I pocketed it.  But not every shares my delicate
scruples - it's probably not there anymore.

I saw the soapified remains of a crewman in the engine room of the
Kamloops but I didn't touch him.  I was told that those bodies are the
consistency of glue and that I'd get them "stuck to me" if I did touch
them.  He looked much more solid to me but I still didn't want to
disturb him in any way.  It's been his last resting place for 82 years
and I would think he'd want to be left alone.

Yuck. Fortunately salt water (and salt water fishies) makes short
work out of dead flesh. I don't believe there's any soul left in the
skeleton, which is why I have no problem touching bones, but
"soapified remains" that stick to you are another story entirely. On
the other hand, if there are any identifying features on your crewman,
perhaps he has descendants that would be interested in his location.

On a somewhat related incident, when we were in French Polynesia
wading in the warm shallow waters off a motu near Taha'a, I began
picking up various sea cucumbers to show off to Janna and my new
friends. To my surprise, one of them started squirting a white
viscous substance as if I had just performed a stellar hand job on
it. Even worse than my embarrassment at making the damn thing squirt,
it turned out the viscous stuff, that got all over my hands,
immediately stuck to my skin and was near impossible to get off (I
scraped my hands so hard I drew blood in several places). Later on,
thinking the ordeal over, I accidentally stepped on another one and
got the nasty stuff on my bare foot. Apparently the stuff is called
"cuvarian tubules". If sticky crewman remains are anything like
cuvarian tubules, you're damn lucky you didn't poke at him.

"Greg Mossman" <moss... at (no spam) qnet.com> wrote in message

news:9003cc8a-7663-4de8-b055-70df494865bc at (no spam) z3g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 1:46 pm, "dechucka" <vo... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:





"dechucka" <vo... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:l_udnRpTYP4WEm3XnZ2dnUVZ_hudnZ2d at (no spam) westnet.com.au...

"Greg Mossman" <moss... at (no spam) qnet.com> wrote in message
news:95f73841-06d7-4a58-ab1e-4ac0cba1b196 at (no spam) y10g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 5:42 am, John Hanson <jhan... at (no spam) northernlinks.com> wrote:
On Mon, 2 Nov 2009 22:51:08 -0800 (PST), Greg Mossman
moss... at (no spam) qnet.com> wrote in rec.scuba:

On Nov 2, 7:49 pm, JRE <noth... at (no spam) nowhere.invalid> wrote:

Full disclosure: For whatever it's worth, I have a porthole frame
from
one wreck (found loose off the wreck) and an iron spike from
another
(likewise). I have seen but never disturbed human remains, and
cannot
think of a reason I ever would, and I have yet to cut anything off
a
wreck. But if I found something I thought worth saving inside a
WWII
salt water wreck, I'd very possibly bring it up if I could, as the
sea
won't wait and whatever bit of history it represents will be
irretrievably lost to everyone, forever, in not too many years.

Yet I just posted another article about people going around wrecks
in
Palau removing human remains. To each his own. Me, if I found human
remains in a wreck, I'd probably snag a bone when no one else was
looking, take it home, and nail it on the wall next to my snorkel.
One of my fondest memories of diving Truk Lagoon was when I got to
touch a real live bone, but there was just one there and it would
have
been obvious had I pocketed it. But not every shares my delicate
scruples - it's probably not there anymore.

I saw the soapified remains of a crewman in the engine room of the
Kamloops but I didn't touch him. I was told that those bodies are the
consistency of glue and that I'd get them "stuck to me" if I did
touch
them. He looked much more solid to me but I still didn't want to
disturb him in any way. It's been his last resting place for 82 years
and I would think he'd want to be left alone.

Yuck. Fortunately salt water (and salt water fishies) makes short
work out of dead flesh. I don't believe there's any soul left in the
skeleton, which is why I have no problem touching bones, but
"soapified remains" that stick to you are another story entirely. On
the other hand, if there are any identifying features on your crewman,
perhaps he has descendants that would be interested in his location.

On a somewhat related incident, when we were in French Polynesia
wading in the warm shallow waters off a motu near Taha'a, I began
picking up various sea cucumbers to show off to Janna and my new
friends. To my surprise, one of them started squirting a white
viscous substance as if I had just performed a stellar hand job on
it. Even worse than my embarrassment at making the damn thing squirt,
it turned out the viscous stuff, that got all over my hands,
immediately stuck to my skin and was near impossible to get off (I
scraped my hands so hard I drew blood in several places). Later on,
thinking the ordeal over, I accidentally stepped on another one and
got the nasty stuff on my bare foot. Apparently the stuff is called
"cuvarian tubules". If sticky crewman remains are anything like
cuvarian tubules, you're damn lucky you didn't poke at him.

=============================================

don't get it anywhere near your eyes

further to my commentshttp://library.thinkquest.org/C007974/2_1scs.htm

Interesting that it's a poison. I felt pretty lousy the next day, but
chalked it up to all the tropical sun and drinks we were absorbing as
we played with the sea cucumbers. I'm very glad I didn't stick it in
my eye.

====================================================

not sure how poisonous it is if you just get it on your skin as people
seem
to get it on their skin quite often with no ill effect. I was warned years
ago not to get it anywhere near my eyes as it could cause stinging. Maybe
different species are more toxic

Scott wrote:
"El Stroko Guapo" <omgray at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:nsadnQndVYq2BG3XnZ2dnUVZ_rudnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

Scott wrote:

"El Stroko Guapo" <omgray at (no spam) earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:TpSdnS2068H9-m3XnZ2dnUVZ_q-dnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...



Most of the human remains from war graves are in university stashes,
not garages.


Bullshit.

The Smithsonian Institution has 18,600. No one else will disclose how
many bodies they have stashed away, not even under the federally-mandated
NAGPRA inventory, but the big archeology universities in the US must have
at least 200,000 maybe a half-million. Then there's all the
looters-for-science in Mexico, Germany, UK, figure another half-million.

If you went to bury all the university and museum corpses you'd run out
of space.


That's not what you said.

You said "Most of the human remains from war graves are in university
stashes, not garages."

http://www.cem.va.gov/ start here. Then check the numbers on European and
Pacific soils.

Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act deals with Native
American Remains, not war graves or the looters thereof.

And regardless of how many war dead are in places where the locations and
situations are logged, creeps picking up bones off war graves is wrong.

Period.

Those in university "archives" are required by law to be returned, so why
aren't they?
Oh, you mean officially dead combatants of officially declared wars on
official US soil. Not the indians killed on death marches. Or the
Presbytarians killed in Western Massachusetts by Anglicans. Or the Maya
killed in civil wars.

No, those in archives are not required to be returned. And there's a lot
more civil war soldiers in archives than there are in garages or over
mantles.

"Creeps picking up bones off war graves" are called osteologists, and they
work for universities; give them the respect they deserve.

On a somewhat related incident, when we were in French Polynesia
wading in the warm shallow waters off a motu near Taha'a, I began
picking up various sea cucumbers to show off to Janna and my new
friends.  To my surprise, one of them started squirting a white
viscous substance as if I had just performed a stellar hand job on
it.  Even worse than my embarrassment at making the damn thing squirt,
it turned out the viscous stuff, that got all over my hands,
immediately stuck to my skin and was near impossible to get off (I
scraped my hands so hard I drew blood in several places).  Later on,
thinking the ordeal over, I accidentally stepped on another one and
got the nasty stuff on my bare foot.  Apparently the stuff is called
"cuvarian tubules".  If sticky crewman remains are anything like
cuvarian tubules, you're damn lucky you didn't poke at him.

Ouch!  Nope, no interest in messing with the dead.  Especially with
the sad tale of her foundering and loss of all lives.  She  is a
magnificent wreck.  Nothing I've ever dove on has even come close to
it.