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| Hobby Forum Index » Guns » Shotgun's serial number is unreadable -- how to fix?... |
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| Jim... |
 Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 pm |
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"Gunny_2008" <patmagroin_16 at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hcep78$16r$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net...
# As far as staying below the radar as a gun owner goes, I
# have bought far too many guns from stores to believe that the BATFE is
# still
# unaware of my existence. As always, everyone is free to make their own
# decisions on something like this.
It's one thing to be on ATF's radar legally, and another to be in possession
of something questionable.
As I recall, the original post said the number had been obliterated, which
is SPECIFICALLY referenced in ATF rules and court proceedings. If the owner
described the number as obliterated, I'm positive that ATF would agree. That
opens the door to prosecution, intentional or not. In fact, courts have
ruled that intent is NOT required, that simple possession is prima facia
evidence.
It's a no-brainer, at least to me.
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| Bandit... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:09 pm |
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On Oct 30, 9:20 am, "Gunny_2008" <patmagroin... at (no spam) hotmail.com> wrote:
Just to clarify, one of the things we as firearms owners always say is
that we don't need new gun laws, we just need to enforce the ones we
have. But then when told that it is a crime to have a firearm with an
obliterated S/N, everyone proffers reasons why that law should not be
applied to this case or that case. In Pennsylvania, it is a crime to
POSSESS a firearm with an obliterated serial number. In Pennsylvania,
Sec 6117 of the crimes code says that nobody can alter or obliterate a
S/N. Further it states that possession of such a firearm would be
considered Prima Facia evidence that the possesser also obliterated
it. And it is a Felony 2. You can do what you want, but that doesn't
mean that you are right. What's the big deal. Follow the law. If
you don't like it work to change it. But don't tell others to violate
the laws WE shout to be enforced!
Just my two cents worth.
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| Gunny_2009... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:39 am |
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# It's one thing to be on ATF's radar legally, and another to be in
possession
# of something questionable.
#
# As I recall, the original post said the number had been obliterated, which
# is SPECIFICALLY referenced in ATF rules and court proceedings. If the
owner
# described the number as obliterated, I'm positive that ATF would agree.
That
# opens the door to prosecution, intentional or not. In fact, courts have
# ruled that intent is NOT required, that simple possession is prima facia
# evidence.
#
# It's a no-brainer, at least to me.
#
Actually obliteration wasn't in the original problem, just partial damage.
QUOTE: "I inherited a Remington 870 with a gouge on the side of the
receiver
that goes through part of the serial number. Three of the numbers are
unreadable."
I think he is an excellent candidate to use the legal procedures to repair
or replace the serial numbers the legal method. I think everyone should try
their best to obey the laws that exist. As one other poster reminded us,
our mantra has been that we don't need new gun laws, just enforce the ones
we have. Gun owners that don't try to obey the laws are hypocrits. If you
are concerned about whether the damage looks intentional vice accidental
take it to a lawyer and get some advice. He can call the BATFE Field Office
and let them know what he has and make sure they understand that this is
accidental damage. The fact that you are bringing it to the BATFE
voluntarily goes a long way towards showing you are an honest gun owner, not
some gangbanger wanting to get a clean number for his stolen gun. On the
other hand, if any of you guys has one that you filed off intentionally or
that you bought and could see at the time that obviously the serial number
had been obliterated intentionally, shame on you. That gun probably was
stolen and rightfully belongs to another shooter, not you. You deserve to
be caught.
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| Gunny_2009... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:39 am |
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I agree with you. But there is a big difference between being caught with a
gun with a damaged serial number and walking in voluntarily and asking for
their help in fixing accidental damage. Usually, the prosecution of people
for damaged serial numbers is an add-on charge to assault or burglary or
murder, where the DA wants to rack up as many charges as possible to give
him some plea bargaining leverage. I have never seen it as the primary
charge. Talk to a lawyer and have him arrange the walkin appointment. He
can ensure they know the damage was accidental, (it WAS, wasn't it?). Stay
clean, obey the law, don't grind off your serial numbers, and don't buy one
that has had it done. I still have enough faith in our country's legal
process that if you follow those instructions no one is going to barge into
the BATFE office and put you on the floor while you are there voluntarily
asking for their help on legitimate accidental damage.
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| Jim Yanik... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 3:39 am |
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there's a big difference between an "obliterated" serial number and a -
damaged- S/N. it takes a bit of work to "obliterate" a S/N.
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