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| Ken Meltzer... |
 Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:29 am |
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On Oct 21, 8:49 am, "richer... at (no spam) hotnail.com" <richer... at (no spam) gmail.com>
wrote:
Quote: To my stupid ears, it is perhaps the most beautifully lyric of all the
Wagner scores (and I include Lohengrin in that, although perhaps
that's more accessible because the forms (and the story) have more
references to the Italian tradition).
I think that the issue is often how much German someone has - even
with the wonderful melodic outpourings, it is hard to stay involved
with some of it if you don't have the language or the libretto in your
head, both because I think that Sachs' wisdom then goes by the boards,
or the end of the second act, which is a challenge to keep straight,
are just too hard to follow. I also think that the final scene - which
can indeed seem a bit bombastic <ducking> is infinitely harder if you
don't have the language, because much more is said than, "They lived
happily ever after".
I think that Monteverdi is even harder to listen to intelligently on
record without visual cues if you don't have that language, or a grasp
of what he is doing in terms of subtlety.
Thank goodness for John Adams, right Ken?
Best
John Adams mentioned that when he walks his dog in his Berkley
neighborhood, people driving by stop to offer suggestions on how to
improve his works!
Best,
Ken |
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| wagnerfan... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:32 am |
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"richergar at (no spam) hotnail.com" <richergar at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:edf51893-5b17-4f43-8135-9f43c11787c3 at (no spam) q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
To my stupid ears, it is perhaps the most beautifully lyric of all the
Wagner scores (and I include Lohengrin in that, although perhaps
that's more accessible because the forms (and the story) have more
references to the Italian tradition).
I think that the issue is often how much German someone has - even
with the wonderful melodic outpourings, it is hard to stay involved
with some of it if you don't have the language or the libretto in your
head, both because I think that Sachs' wisdom then goes by the boards,
or the end of the second act, which is a challenge to keep straight,
are just too hard to follow. I also think that the final scene - which
can indeed seem a bit bombastic <ducking> is infinitely harder if you
don't have the language, because much more is said than, "They lived
happily ever after".
I think that Monteverdi is even harder to listen to intelligently on
record without visual cues if you don't have that language, or a grasp
of what he is doing in terms of subtlety.
Thank goodness for John Adams, right Ken?
Best
"I also think that the final scene - which
can indeed seem a bit bombastic <ducking>"
The final scene (by which I think you mean Sachs final address "Verachtet
mir die Meister nicht") has surely been given interpretations widely off the
mark by commentators who should know better. When one checks the actual
historical context of the piece, it makes perfect sense. Admittedly though
even Cosima had some misgivings about the possible jingoistic (or worse)
interpretations of the scene - the fact that the Nazis took over the piece
didn't help matters much. Wagner fan
On Oct 20, 8:00 pm, Ken Meltzer <commsp... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
Quote: On Oct 20, 6:49 pm, "wagnerfan" <wagner... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
Dontaitchic... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote in message
news:7b4bc5bf-e6a7-4d4a-aa8c-7da3f55ab121 at (no spam) q14g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 20, 5:04 am, td <tomdedea... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:
On Oct 18, 2:43 pm, Nautilus <m... at (no spam) privacy.net> wrote:
Any opinions on the relative merits of the releases from Decca and
Naxos?
Does it matter?
Nothing will allieviate the crashing boredom induced by listening to
this "music". Only a fanatic or a "fan" could possible care one way or
the other.
One might need to see and hear it in live performance. Only heard,
Die Meistersinger can indeed seem long and boring. In the opera house
(as intended, of course), it is an overwhelming, even shattering,
experience.
Don Tait
A very rational reply to a posting that had no purpose other than to be
obnoxious and rude (for the sole purpose of being obnoxious and rude)
Wagner fan
No disagreement, other than to say that I have no problem at all in
listening to Meistersinger on recordings. The number I have in my
collection is pretty strong testament to this!
Best,
Ken- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text - |
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| wagnerfan... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:29 am |
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"alcindoro" <alcindoro at (no spam) aol.com> wrote in message
news:71413582-ce57-4cf5-8b07-30ef14883941 at (no spam) z34g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Quote: "And we'll hear Leontyne Price sing her / Medley from
'Meistersinger'"!
-- from MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG by Stephen Sondheim
Well, actually she was scheduled to sing Elsa for Leinsdorf at Tanglewood in
1965 for later recording but backed out fairly early. Wagner Fan |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:47 am |
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On Oct 21, 4:54�am, td <tomdedea... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:
Quote: On Oct 20, 5:49�pm, Dontaitchic... at (no spam) aol.com wrote:
On Oct 20, 5:04 am, td <tomdedea... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:
On Oct 18, 2:43 pm, Nautilus <m... at (no spam) privacy.net> wrote:
Any opinions on the relative merits of the releases from Decca and
Naxos?
Does it matter?
Nothing will allieviate the crashing boredom induced by listening to
this "music". Only a fanatic or a "fan" could possible care one way or
the other.
� One might need to see and hear it in live performance. Only heard,
Die Meistersinger can indeed seem long and boring. In the opera house
(as intended, of course), it is an overwhelming, even shattering,
experience.
Hmmm.
But we are talking about recordings, right?
No, Tom, you didn't say that you were talking about recordings. You
referrred to the opera only.
Quote: No visutal element.
All right. You've said that that's what you meant now. But no opera
is complete without the visual element, and that's what my message was
intended to convey.
Quote: And I say this while taking exception to your "overwhelming,
shattering" adjectives.
Fine. Then attend a live performance of the opera. That's what I
wrote about. Have you? That's what I was writing about was. Otherwise,
my adjectives were only intended to convey my reaction to live
performances. Take all the exception you like.
Quote: The last time I ate a dumpling, Don, it didn't take over five hours to
do so.
Die Meistersinger is not a dumpling, Tom.
Don Tait
Go to the opera when they put it on. That's |
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| td... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:21 pm |
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On Oct 22, 5:47 pm, Dontaitchic... at (no spam) aol.com wrote:
Quote: On Oct 21, 4:54 am, td <tomdedea... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:
The last time I ate a dumpling, Don, it didn't take over five hours to
do so.
Die Meistersinger is not a dumpling, Tom.
Don Tait
Go to the opera when they put it on. That's
Thank you, Don. But I have and that dumpling is still weighing on my
stomach, years later.
TD |
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| Bob Harper... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:33 am |
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td wrote:
Quote: On Oct 22, 5:47 pm, Dontaitchic... at (no spam) aol.com wrote:
On Oct 21, 4:54 am, td <tomdedea... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:
The last time I ate a dumpling, Don, it didn't take over five hours to
do so.
Die Meistersinger is not a dumpling, Tom.
Don Tait
Go to the opera when they put it on. That's
Thank you, Don. But I have and that dumpling is still weighing on my
stomach, years later.
TD
Perhaps the problem is your digestive system rather than the food.
Bob Harper |
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| Tonywa... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:12 am |
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Quote: John Adams mentioned that when he walks his dog in his Berkley
neighborhood, people driving by stop to offer suggestions on how to
improve his works!
Best,
Ken
Shame they didn't offer the same assistance to Philip Glass ;-)
Tony Watts |
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| Ken Meltzer... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:22 am |
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On Oct 23, 5:12 pm, Tonywa <t... at (no spam) tonywauk.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Quote: John Adams mentioned that when he walks his dog in his Berkley
neighborhood, people driving by stop to offer suggestions on how to
improve his works!
Best,
Ken
Shame they didn't offer the same assistance to Philip Glass ;-)
Tony Watts
Yes, well.......!
Best,
Ken |
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| richergar at (no spam) hotnail.com... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:53 am |
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I believe Mr. Glass can afford to pay someone to walk his dog, Tony.
On Oct 23, 5:12 pm, Tonywa <t... at (no spam) tonywauk.demon.co.uk> wrote:
Quote: John Adams mentioned that when he walks his dog in his Berkley
neighborhood, people driving by stop to offer suggestions on how to
improve his works!
Best,
Ken
Shame they didn't offer the same assistance to Philip Glass ;-)
Tony Watts |
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