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| Bruce in alaska... |
 Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:49 pm |
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In article <hbn2ag$vu6$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net>,
"Long Ranger" <worpylorp at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:
# That is the decision you make when you opt to
# protect yourself and loved ones with a gun.
Here Here, The time to decide if you can take another Humans life,
is long before the confrontation. It is when you arm yourself with your
weapon of choice, gun, knife, Baseball Bat, whatever..... If you can't
see yourself using a weapon to defend yourself, then why in the world
would you arm yourself, for that purpose? I suspect a lot of folks just
don't THINK the Issues all the way through, when making the decision in
the first place, and never consider the unintended consequences of that
decision. It requires considerable self-reflection and consideration to
use deadly force, and not be effected by the emotions generated by such
a use of deadly force. Many a LEO has run up against this issue, and
even with counseling come out of it worse for wear. If one does the
thinking and taking ALL the considerations into the decision, long
before the confrontation, then whatever the outcome, most of the
emotional baggage doesn't become an issue, because these things were
decided long before. It is one thing to know how to kill, and another
thing altogether, to do it, and not be damaged by that action. Ask a
Marine Sniper who has seen action, in that capacity. He will tell you
that they weed out those who have a problem with this issue, long before
they ever get to the Firing Range, and even then those unintended
consequences still crop up now and again.....
--
Bruce in alaska
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| Martin H. Eastburn... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:50 pm |
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And likewise not destroy the living room vases or TV just trying
to shoot an invader.
Insurance likely won't pay off - so limit the exposure.
Martin
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| Tom S.... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:47 am |
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# while a deer will keel over, but more often than not they aren't wounded
# severely enough to ever go down. I have stopped hunting with buckshot
# because it is not effective enough to present a reliable kill. For
# self-defense, you would be courting disaster. Stick with slugs.
Good thing - in many states, hunting deer with buckshot is illegal.
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| BRUCE... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:47 am |
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"Not at all. I just have the experience of hunting with buckshot"
Seems you need a little work on shot placement
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| John Lemke... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:16 am |
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Tom S. wrote:
# # while a deer will keel over, but more often than not they aren't wounded
# # severely enough to ever go down. I have stopped hunting with buckshot
# # because it is not effective enough to present a reliable kill. For
# # self-defense, you would be courting disaster. Stick with slugs.
#
# Good thing - in many states, hunting deer with buckshot is illegal.
It's legal here but I never have and never will use it to hunt with.
If you're out in the open and using your head slugs in a shotgun work
fine.
Having said that I know a woman who used buckshot up close and in
thick underbrush and dropped her deer in it's tracks. Basically blew
heart and lungs out of the animal's body. So buckshot under certain
conditions, at certain ranges works fine. I'd just prefer not to use
it hunting and I've taken deer at 9 yards out of tree stands.
Shot placement !!!!!!!!! Imagine that. Yes, by all means and under
all circumstances.
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| ... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:16 am |
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# The Brenneke slug looks great, I'll check them out after work.
So, how did they work for you? Kicked like a mule didn't they?
That'll happen when you're starting a 600 grain slug at (no spam) 1500 fps. Pass
the ibuprofen.
# Don't however negate the efficacy of a 225 gr. bullet moving at 2000 fps
# with 2700 ft-lbs of energy at close range
When it comes time to load a 12 ga for bear defense I'll reserve the
right to question the efficacy of a lightly constructly 300 gr .50
caliber bullet designed to expand on deer. These days I'd leave such
work to Garrett Hammerheads (420 at (no spam) 1850) in Mjolnir, my 45/70 Guide
Gun. They're no fun to shoot but I'd rather eat bear meat than be
meat eaten by a bear.
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| DougT... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:16 am |
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Which goes to the reply I wanted to make to Jim about the slug pattern
vs buckshot pattern. Have you shot many deer with buckshot at ranges of
10 to 20 feet? Or were most of the shot over 50 yards?
The point, yes buckshot spreads out but it also rapidly loses energy.
After passing through a wall and going across a 30 foot city lot what is
buckshot's possibility for wounding vs a slug? Or if your talking the
neighbor's house then two walls (windows at a minimum) and distance. A
slug is going to be moving a lot faster and have much more energy than
anybuckshot under those conditions.
Doug T
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| ... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:16 am |
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# "Not at all. I just have the experience of hunting with buckshot"
#
# Seems you need a little work on shot placement
Despite its title buckshot is a notorious wounder of big game, but it
is still allowed (required?) in some southeastern states where it is
used on driven deer in thick cover. But more data is always a good
thing so please tell us more about how your personal experience
differs.
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