In article <ka1245dqu7rva16cuitv6udhte0nlnav2h at (no spam) 4ax.com>, Donut at (no spam) DONUT.NET
(Donut) says...

I asked two questions before, but will just repeat the second, and ask
one more; ATV's are a relatively new machine (30ish years). How did
hunters function without them before that? And what did hunters do
before those thousands of miles of forest roads were created?

By your logic, we could do without all sorts of modern inventions, and
go back to hunting with spears and stone points.

Prior to the ATV, hunting remote areas was the private reserve of the
very wealthy.

Your average working Joe couldn't afford to own or hire a
pack train and wrangler.

The DC elitists know very well that, if they
don't allow ATV access they will effectively ban hunting access to
millions of acres.

You're arguing extremes. We *could* go back to hunting with
spears and stone points, but I've never suggested such a thing,
nor would I.

If they don't allow ATV access, it will only ban access to hunters
using ATV's, do you see the difference?

Donut <Do... at (no spam) DONUT.NET> wrote:
You're arguing extremes. We *could* go back to hunting with
spears and stone points, but I've never suggested such a thing,
nor would I.

Why is your choice of how your grandfather or father did it, in terms
of using a motorized vehicle in the woods only, better
than a choice of how someone else's great-great-great-great-
great grandparent did it in terms of firearms? You choice to limit
one thing (motorized vehicles) but not others (firearms, optics,
clothing materials, etc.) is just arbitrary and capricious (i.e self-serving),
because you don't like how someone else hunts and would like
to keep more people out of where you hunt.

I think that the whole argument that ATVs and other motorized
vehicles are causing all of this damage is rather weak and I don't
see a lot of great evidence to support it. Mostly just people using
environmentalist wacko claims to support their own private agendas.

If they don't allow ATV access, it will only ban access to hunters
using ATV's, do you see the difference?

I wouldn't agree with your statement, and if you don't think there are
people that want to make it harder to hunt, you are rather naive. If
you want to get back farther from main roads to more remote areas,
you can either walk, use an ATV or use pack animals. Using ATV's
or pack-animals will get you a lot father than walking, so removing
ATV's mainly impacts those who can afford ATV's but not those
who can afford and have the expertise for pack animals.

Obviously limiting the use of ATV's does not impact those who don't
use them. To support things like this because you either don't use
or can't afford an ATV is rather silly and a great example of how by
dividing a group you can slowly destroy it.

Later,

Jeff

There's already lots of land where atv's are banned.  Here in
Missouri, atv's are not generally allowed in conservation areas for
example.  I don't have a huge problem with atv's.  For the record, I
can certainly afford an atv, but choose to hunt w/o one, but that is
just my choice.  On the other hand, if we are confining our discussion
to hunting, there is already lots of limitations on when and where you
can hunt.

I don't get bent out of shape when I am out pre-season scouting public
land during bow season because I can't hunt then.  So by the same
logic, if they made some limited regs on where atv's couldn't go, I
probably wouldn't think it was vastly unfair.  I guess if I owned one
and I had always hunted an area and they were banned there, it might
aggravate me some.  I dunno.  There again, there's conservation areas
where I used to hunt that are not open any more and I just make an
adjustment.  It's just the way it goes.

I do know whenever there is a proposed reg change for federal lands
there is a comment period and usually meetings where you can express
your concerns.  If you guys are real worried about this I'd spend my
energies talking to folks who actually make the rules

On Jun 27, 10:24 pm, Family-Outdoors <pamann... at (no spam) GMAIL.COM> wrote:





There's already lots of land where atv's are banned.  Here in
Missouri, atv's are not generally allowed in conservation areas for
example.  I don't have a huge problem with atv's.  For the record, I
can certainly afford an atv, but choose to hunt w/o one, but that is
just my choice.  On the other hand, if we are confining our discussion
to hunting, there is already lots of limitations on when and where you
can hunt.

I don't get bent out of shape when I am out pre-season scouting public
land during bow season because I can't hunt then.  So by the same
logic, if they made some limited regs on where atv's couldn't go, I
probably wouldn't think it was vastly unfair.  I guess if I owned one
and I had always hunted an area and they were banned there, it might
aggravate me some.  I dunno.  There again, there's conservation areas
where I used to hunt that are not open any more and I just make an
adjustment.  It's just the way it goes.

I do know whenever there is a proposed reg change for federal lands
there is a comment period and usually meetings where you can express
your concerns.  If you guys are real worried about this I'd spend my
energies talking to folks who actually make the rules

Actually I don't think hunters with atv's are the problem.
I think it's the weekend warriors who go out and just run the trails,
etc
at full speed that are probably the problem.   Sure get enough of them
around here.  Drives me nuts.  Even on the roads they rip around full
speed.  No, I'm not anti-atv,  I have a kawasaki mule and use it daily
on
the farm.  And yep, I'm on the roads with it also as thats the
quickest
and easiest way to check the fence lines.

The weekend warriors on atv's are almost as bad as the ones on the
jet skis on the lakes.

Damn, it sure sounds like I'm getting old and grumpy, don't it.

I'm down in the Missouri Ozarks by the way.

Randy

I hope this doesn't strike a nerve but my biggest gripe down in the
Ozarks the past couple of years has been dogs.  Damned if about half
the time I don't get up in a tree in my climber and at some point have
a dog or dogs running around me.  I hunt down in Peck Ranch, Rocky
Creek, and Angeline CA's and it's gotten bad down there.  They always
have radio collars and I have my suspicions about their purpose.  I
wouldn't shoot somebody's dog but it gets tempting sometimes.  I love
it down there even though the deer are not as numerous as other places
I go, but I've thought about going north to avoid the dog problem.  I
live about 15 miles outside Washington, MO

On Jun 29, 9:09 am, Family-Outdoors <pamann... at (no spam) GMAIL.COM> wrote:



I hope this doesn't strike a nerve but my biggest gripe down in the
Ozarks the past couple of years has been dogs.  Damned if about half
the time I don't get up in a tree in my climber and at some point have
a dog or dogs running around me.  I hunt down in Peck Ranch, Rocky
Creek, and Angeline CA's and it's gotten bad down there.  They always
have radio collars and I have my suspicions about their purpose.  I
wouldn't shoot somebody's dog but it gets tempting sometimes.  I love
it down there even though the deer are not as numerous as other places
I go, but I've thought about going north to avoid the dog problem.  I
live about 15 miles outside Washington, MO

Yep you struck a nerve.   But not the way you thought.
I've had more problems with dogs then I care to remember.
Lots of dogs dumped down here &  lots of just wild dogs around.
They breed with each other, coyotes and wolves.  Very aggressive and
have cost me a small fortune in stock losses over the past few years.
I usually carry a gun with me while out working the farm just in
case....

Not as many deer as other places ?
Man, they are so numerous in our area we consider them to be more
like rodents.

Randy

Somehow it doesn't surprise me to hear someone say there's a bunch of
deer someplace where I don't see many...story of my life