...so pardon the newbie questions.

Is there anyone on here who is interested in or currently *writing*
historical fiction?

Anybody besides me who is kind of dismayed at the current "trendiness"
of using historical fiction with a large dash of the occult/
supernatural/modern crime story mixed in?

Sapphire

"Sapphire" <JCStapleton at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e50b0486-5e48-4add-b6f1-f7258b6ede84 at (no spam) z8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
...so pardon the newbie questions.

Is there anyone on here who is interested in or currently *writing*
historical fiction?

Anybody besides me who is kind of dismayed at the current "trendiness"
of using historical fiction with a large dash of the occult/
supernatural/modern crime story mixed in?

Sapphire

I am also new to this group, so I doubt that I could say very much. But
I am curious about your question. Perhaps you are right in considering
the occult or the supernatural as an attempt to investigate a little
troubling, but it is hard to write a time-period piece of fiction. The
further back in time someone wants to delve, the harder it is to keep
things situated properly. (Some researchers may be able to do so, but
then linguistic problems will probably arise.)
snip
Terence

Oh, I have read many by women and am cognizant that it is
was a woman, Josephine Tey, who invented the Historical
Mystery genre.  \

But if you want a truly excellent historical novel by a
woman, you might look up M. M. Kaye's *Far Pavilions* which
covers India from the Great Mutiny to the Second Afghan War
- topics very relevant to today.'

Read it years ago - corresponded with the author while she was still

Nor should you.  A lot of women authors' novels have male
protagonists, it is true.  And some men write with female
protagonists, though the ratio is lower than the converse
situation.

One of the best, in my opinion, was the late and lamented Dorothy Lady

The Cadfaels (I think I have read all or almost all) are
good for their depiction of social life of the time.  It is
interesting how the author understates a lot of the social
issues that would scandalize readers if translated into a
modern story - e.g., the young age at which women were
making life partner choices.  But then, it was very true of
the times, indeed most times prior to the industrial
revolution.  See Anderson and Zinnser, *A History of Their
Own: Women in Europe from Prehistory to the Present* (vol.
1) and Antonia Fraser, *The Weaker Vessel* .

The first book was a text in my Women's History Class, and I own the

Sapphire wrote:
I am also new to this group, so I doubt that I could say very much.  But I
am curious about your question.  Perhaps you are right in considering the
occult or the supernatural as an attempt to investigate a little troubling,
but it is hard to write a time-period piece of fiction.  The further back in
time someone wants to delve, the harder it is to keep things situated
properly.  (Some researchers may be able to do so, but then linguistic
problems will probably arise.)

Well, those are the very things I struggle with day to day.  I'm
working on a manuscript about
Charlemagne, his life, family and court.  There's really nothing that
survives from that period that shows
how people might have spoken to each other.  It's not even a "prithee,
my lord" kind of culture.  :-)

You might want to take a look at how Iain Pears handled the
problem in *The Dream of Scipio* .  But it is too true,
there is very little extant from that era.  Have you looked
at Farrier, *The Medieval Charlemagne Legend: An Annotated
Bibliography* (New York 1993)?

Thanks for the recommendation. I've looked at Farrier; I've read

Try to find bilingual editions of the works you consult.
For those in Latin (the lingua franca of the Franks?), the
Loeb Library is bilingual, with the Latin on the left page
and the English on the right.  For the philosophical issues
of the time, take a look at John Scottus Eruigena, an Irish
scholar in the the Carolingian court.

Thanks, more good stuff. I'm also currently pursuing information on

On Apr 17, 5:23 pm, "Francis A. Miniter" <famini... at (no spam) comcast.net
wrote:
Sapphire wrote:
I am also new to this group, so I doubt that I could say very much. But I
am curious about your question. Perhaps you are right in considering the
occult or the supernatural as an attempt to investigate a little troubling,
but it is hard to write a time-period piece of fiction. The further back in
time someone wants to delve, the harder it is to keep things situated
properly. (Some researchers may be able to do so, but then linguistic
problems will probably arise.)
Well, those are the very things I struggle with day to day. I'm
working on a manuscript about
Charlemagne, his life, family and court. There's really nothing that
survives from that period that shows
how people might have spoken to each other. It's not even a "prithee,
my lord" kind of culture.
You might want to take a look at how Iain Pears handled the
problem in *The Dream of Scipio* . But it is too true,
there is very little extant from that era. Have you looked
at Farrier, *The Medieval Charlemagne Legend: An Annotated
Bibliography* (New York 1993)?

Thanks for the recommendation. I've looked at Farrier; I've read
about every work on Charlemagne
I can lay my hands on via bookstores, library and ILL. And, lest we
forget, ABE books and Half.com
Try to find bilingual editions of the works you consult.
For those in Latin (the lingua franca of the Franks?), the
Loeb Library is bilingual, with the Latin on the left page
and the English on the right. For the philosophical issues
of the time, take a look at John Scottus Eruigena, an Irish
scholar in the the Carolingian court.

Thanks, more good stuff. I'm also currently pursuing information on
Rhabanus.

Sapphire

Oh, I have read many by women and am cognizant that it is
was a woman, Josephine Tey, who invented the Historical
Mystery genre. \

I love _Daughter of Time_.


But if you want a truly excellent historical novel by a
woman, you might look up M. M. Kaye's *Far Pavilions* which
covers India from the Great Mutiny to the Second Afghan War
- topics very relevant to today.'

Read it years ago - corresponded with the author while she was still
alive.

I like another novel of hers, _Shadow on the Moon_, even better; it is
set right before
and during the Mutiny. If you go back and re-read _The Far
Pavilions_, you'll come
across a sly reference to the hero of _Shadow_.


Nor should you. A lot of women authors' novels have male
protagonists, it is true. And some men write with female
protagonists, though the ratio is lower than the converse
situation.

One of the best, in my opinion, was the late and lamented Dorothy Lady
Dunnett writing a
primarily male protagonist (although in the later books I think she
took up more of the
heroine-protagonist's sensibilities).

I consider it an open-ended question, but so far I have not been very
impressed with
historical women written by men. Open-ended because I'm always
prepared for it to be
otherwise.

The Cadfaels (I think I have read all or almost all) are
good for their depiction of social life of the time. It is
interesting how the author understates a lot of the social
issues that would scandalize readers if translated into a
modern story - e.g., the young age at which women were
making life partner choices. But then, it was very true of
the times, indeed most times prior to the industrial
revolution. See Anderson and Zinnser, *A History of Their
Own: Women in Europe from Prehistory to the Present* (vol.
1) and Antonia Fraser, *The Weaker Vessel* .

The first book was a text in my Women's History Class, and I own the
second.

I think that it's a relatively small segment of the reading market
that is scandalized at any one time by the young age of marriage in earlier times. It may
be a surprise to discover it the first time out, but it becomes more intellectually
accepted, if not something that a reader is championing in their own time merely by
reading about it. Disney princesses are about 16-18, to judge by the settings and
situations of the characters. The historical romances (I distinguish the sub-sub-
genre slightly) of Molly Costain Haycraft, which I read avidly from my junior high
library and which are still sold in the Young Adult aisles of many used bookstores I
frequent today, feature 14, 15 and 16 year old heroines entering marriages of state -
often while falling in love with an "unsuitable" or "forbidden" young man - but
always a nobleman - in the process.

Sapphire

...so pardon the newbie questions.

Is there anyone on here who is interested in or currently *writing*
historical fiction?

Anybody besides me who is kind of dismayed at the current "trendiness"
of using historical fiction with a large dash of the occult/
supernatural/modern crime story mixed in?

Sapphire

On Apr 13, 1:46 pm, Sapphire <JCStaple... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

...so pardon the newbie questions.

Is there anyone on here who is interested in or currently *writing*
historical fiction?

Anybody besides me who is kind of dismayed at the current "trendiness"
of using historical fiction with a large dash of the occult/
supernatural/modern crime story mixed in?

Sapphire

Hello Sapphire:

Yes, I'm in the process of writing a historical novel....very early
stages. Never written one before.
Second yes to being somewhat concerend about certain aspects of
"trendiness".
How are you doing?
Cheers!
Ken

On Apr 17, 5:23 pm, "Francis A. Miniter" <famini... at (no spam) comcast.net
wrote:
Sapphire wrote:
I am also new to this group, so I doubt that I could say very much. But I
am curious about your question. Perhaps you are right in considering the
occult or the supernatural as an attempt to investigate a little troubling,
but it is hard to write a time-period piece of fiction. The further back in
time someone wants to delve, the harder it is to keep things situated
properly. (Some researchers may be able to do so, but then linguistic
problems will probably arise.)
Well, those are the very things I struggle with day to day. I'm
working on a manuscript about
Charlemagne, his life, family and court. There's really nothing that
survives from that period that shows
how people might have spoken to each other. It's not even a "prithee,
my lord" kind of culture.
You might want to take a look at how Iain Pears handled the
problem in *The Dream of Scipio* . But it is too true,
there is very little extant from that era. Have you looked
at Farrier, *The Medieval Charlemagne Legend: An Annotated
Bibliography* (New York 1993)?

Thanks for the recommendation. I've looked at Farrier; I've read
about every work on Charlemagne
I can lay my hands on via bookstores, library and ILL. And, lest we
forget, ABE books and Half.com
Try to find bilingual editions of the works you consult.
For those in Latin (the lingua franca of the Franks?), the
Loeb Library is bilingual, with the Latin on the left page
and the English on the right. For the philosophical issues
of the time, take a look at John Scottus Eruigena, an Irish
scholar in the the Carolingian court.

Thanks, more good stuff. I'm also currently pursuing information on
Rhabanus.

Sapphire