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Hobby Forum Index » Music - Classical » new member, and a question...
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| Etha Williams... |
 Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:44 am |
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Hello -- new member, long time classical music lover here.
As a point of curiosity, I am conducting a very non-scientific survey
and would appreciate people's answers to the following questions.
1) Do you have absolute pitch?
2) Do you enjoy atonal and, specifically, serialist (12-tone) music?
I have a theory that there is a correlation here, but I'm not
altogether certain. Responses would be much appreciated! |
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| Peter T. Daniels... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:36 am |
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On Jul 1, 12:44 pm, Etha Williams <diftorhehsmu... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Hello -- new member, long time classical music lover here.
As a point of curiosity, I am conducting a very non-scientific survey
and would appreciate people's answers to the following questions.
1) Do you have absolute pitch?
2) Do you enjoy atonal and, specifically, serialist (12-tone) music?
I have a theory that there is a correlation here, but I'm not
altogether certain. Responses would be much appreciated!
(1) no
(2) (a) define "enjoy"
(b) Do you think all "atonal, and, specifically, serialist (12-tone)
music" sounds alike?
Maybe I was lucky in that the first serial work I heard (and learned)
was Schoenberg's Survivor from Warsaw; and not long after that, the De
Profundis in Bernstein's Mass. I don't know that "enjoy" is
appropriate given the texts of the works, but they are expressive and
moving. |
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| Lora Crighton... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:35 pm |
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Etha Williams wrote:
Quote: Hello -- new member, long time classical music lover here.
As a point of curiosity, I am conducting a very non-scientific survey
and would appreciate people's answers to the following questions.
1) Do you have absolute pitch?
No.
Quote: 2) Do you enjoy atonal and, specifically, serialist (12-tone) music?
Some of it.
Quote:
I have a theory that there is a correlation here, but I'm not
altogether certain. Responses would be much appreciated!
What is your theory? |
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| Adam Funk... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:18 pm |
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On 2008-07-01, Etha Williams wrote:
Quote: Hello -- new member, long time classical music lover here.
As a point of curiosity, I am conducting a very non-scientific survey
and would appreciate people's answers to the following questions.
1) Do you have absolute pitch?
No.
Quote: 2) Do you enjoy atonal and, specifically, serialist (12-tone) music?
Not really (but I have to admit that based on what I've heard that has
been described that way, I haven't sought more).
Quote: I have a theory that there is a correlation here, but I'm not
altogether certain. Responses would be much appreciated!
Sounds interesting.
--
I heard that Hans Christian Andersen lifted the title for "The Little
Mermaid" off a Red Lobster Menu. [Bucky Katt] |
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| Poldie... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:58 pm |
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Lora Crighton wrote:
Quote: Etha Williams wrote:
Hello -- new member, long time classical music lover here.
As a point of curiosity, I am conducting a very non-scientific survey
and would appreciate people's answers to the following questions.
1) Do you have absolute pitch?
No.
2) Do you enjoy atonal and, specifically, serialist (12-tone) music?
Some of it.
I have a theory that there is a correlation here, but I'm not
altogether certain. Responses would be much appreciated!
What is your theory?
That there is a correlation between people with absolute pitch and a
liking for atonal or serialist music? |
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| Jon Teske... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:16 pm |
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On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:44:29 -0700 (PDT), Etha Williams
<diftorhehsmusma at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Hello -- new member, long time classical music lover here.
As a point of curiosity, I am conducting a very non-scientific survey
and would appreciate people's answers to the following questions.
1) Do you have absolute pitch?
No, not even close.
Quote: 2) Do you enjoy atonal and, specifically, serialist (12-tone) music?
A few works well played.. The Berg and Schoenberg violin concerti for
example. Berg's Lyric Suite, Weberns 6 pieces, Schoenberg's Chamber
Symphony. What I hated were the mid 20th century academics who took
a clever idea and made a religion out of it. Their work is now getting
the obscurity it deserved even before most of it was written.
Practically every new work I've played in the last 25 years or so has
had some degree of tonality. My conductors (I play in four orchestras)
just don't program 12 tone works. Three of my four orchestras have a
vibrant committment to new works and I have premiered many
commissioned works, but 12 tone/atonal whatever is dead, dead, dead!
I've been a violinist for almost 56 years now and at one time was a
student of Schoenberg's disciple and later brother-in-law, Rudolf
Kolisch. I heard many of Kolisch's lectures he could make a case for
the really great works of the genre, which by my reckoning are pretty
much limited to Schoenberg, Berg and Webern. I guess I've heard a few
others that were OK, but truthfully I probably forgot most of them by
the time I was out of the auditorium doors. I don't even particulary
remember 12 tone works I've actually played if I hear them on
recordings years later. I might remember the composers' names, but I
have to go back to my box of programs to see if I actually played the
work.
Quote:
I have a theory that there is a correlation here, but I'm not
altogether certain. Responses would be much appreciated!
Well certainly not in my case. The people I know who have absolute
pitch, and they are few in number, were instrumentalists who showed no
particular bias toward atonal, 12 tone or serial works. I can't even
recall that any of them played such works.
Jon Teske violinist |
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| Terry... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:03 pm |
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On Wed, 2 Jul 2008 02:44:29 +1000, Etha Williams wrote
(in article
<f6ac5ec6-ad0b-41bf-b5b5-b59836f72787 at (no spam) r66g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>):
Quote: Hello -- new member, long time classical music lover here.
As a point of curiosity, I am conducting a very non-scientific survey
and would appreciate people's answers to the following questions.
1) Do you have absolute pitch?
2) Do you enjoy atonal and, specifically, serialist (12-tone) music?
I have a theory that there is a correlation here, but I'm not
altogether certain. Responses would be much appreciated!
1. No
2. Yes
--
Cheers!
Terry |
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| Neil... |
| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:56 pm |
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On Jul 1, 9:44�am, Etha Williams <diftorhehsmu... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: 1) Do you have absolute pitch?
No
2) Do you enjoy atonal and, specifically, serialist (12-tone) music?
Yes
PERFECT PITCH
Like nearly all musicians who play by ear, the famous flutist Jean
Pierre Rampal has what is called perfect pitch. A pitch is the sound
of one of the 12 tones used to form the scales. He is able to
identify
any tone he hears by the letter names we use to label them. Rampal
was
once asked to elaborate on his ability to recognize pitches. He
replied that each of the 12 tones represents a different color to
him.
A faint flash of color appears in his mind, corresponding to the note
he hears. Not all musicians who have perfect pitch see colors, but
they feel something that equates to the tone. Their hearing system
allows them to catalog an aural description of each of the 12 tones,
perhaps due to an extrasensitive ear structure and/or their brain's
processing of what they hear. They are able to identify a note by its
name as easily as the rest of us can identify a color or a shape, and
they can't understand why the rest of us are unable to do so. Even if
a pianist does not have perfect pitch, they can benefit from
understanding what a person who is blessed with perfect pitch is
listening for: It's not the highness or the lowness of the sound that
defines the pitch-- it's the sound's personality.
All Cs have the same personality to the ear of someone with perfect
pitch -- they know the note by an emotion it evokes, not its high or
low frequency. So, they do not initially recognize or place the sound
as though it were one of the keys on the piano. That's because the
personality of the sound is the same no matter which register the
lettered note is from -- it can be the same lettered note positioned
low, in the middle, or high on the piano, and their inner reaction to
the sound will still be the same.
Composers do not arbitrarily choose the key for a composition. The
feelings that notes and scales possess determine which one a composer
chooses for their music, or, more accurately stated, what the music
itself chooses. The music is evoking certain emotions that would be
out of focus if it were not in the key the composer hears and
experiences when the music is conceived. Here are some examples:
F Outdoors Beethoven's Symphony Number 6 "Pastoral"
Ab Love Liszt's Liebestraume Number 3 and Chopin's Etude, Op. 25 #1
Eb Heroism Beethoven's Symphony Number 3 "Eroica"
and Piano Concerto Number 5 "Emperor"
D Playfulness Mozart's Piano Sonata in D, K. 576
This presents another distinction between classical and popular
music.
Nearly all classical compositions do not sound right if the key is
changed. Rare exceptions are some works by composers, such as Bach,
that were transposed to different keys to be played by different
instruments. Popular music, on the other hand, often requires
choosing
a key to fit the vocal range of the singer.
Is perfect pitch either there or not there? My experience indicates
we
all have it to different degrees. One of the first times I heard
Beethoven's Symphony Number 8 I thought it was his Symphony Number 6.
They are both in the key of F. When I hear the B below Middle C I
recognize it as the first note of Chopin's Prelude Number 4.
Near the beginning of La Nevada, a jazz composition by Gil Evans on
his landmark album Out of the Cool, there is a uniquely rhythmic
series of the two notes High C# and High D played at the same time,
as
though he'd like to be playing the imaginary key between the two. If
someone is fooling around at the piano playing those two notes over
and over, I recognize it as the beginning of that song; if they do
the
same on another pair of notes one-half step apart, it does not have
the same effect.
My limited talent at note recognition is a tiny fraction of what
someone possesses who can hear a song and then reproduce it on the
piano, and even transpose it to other keys as easily as the rest of
us
can do so singing Happy Birthday. To those whose hearing and/or its
processing is of such a high level, the sounds in their heads tell
them which keys to play -- chords and all -- just as notes on the
staves
give the rest of us ordinary souls the same directions.
While some musicians have the uncanny ability to recognize pitches
completely naturally, music educators have successfully taught many
others to recognize pitches, utilizing ear-training laboratories and
programmed courses. The sound differences of each pitch are extremely
subtle, so be forewarned that much patience is required of a student
attempting to fine-tune their hearing to this very high degree.
Moreover, do not expect to come anywhere near the instantaneous
recognition, speed or quantity attained by people with perfect pitch
as they reproduce sounds they have heard.
Neil Miller, author of The Piano Lessons Book
Enter in Amazon.com search: Neil Miller Piano Lessons Book |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:08 pm |
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1) No
2) Absolutely
-Brian |
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| Prai Jei... |
| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:21 am |
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Etha Williams set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
continuum:
Quote: Hello -- new member, long time classical music lover here.
As a point of curiosity, I am conducting a very non-scientific survey
and would appreciate people's answers to the following questions.
1) Do you have absolute pitch?
2) Do you enjoy atonal and, specifically, serialist (12-tone) music?
No and no, in that order.
I have particularly acute *relative* pitch, so that if say a record runs
steadily fast or slow (within reasonable limits) I can tolerate it, whereas
if it starts slipping I am immediately aware of it.
So to me, music doesn't have to be played at an externally defined absolute
pitch, but it must at least make sense as music.
--
ξ Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply |
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