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| Forza Azzurri |
 Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:37 pm |
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It just baffles the mind how a country like Canada have a difficult time
to even get to the last stage of World Cup Qualifying. I am not saying
we can be as good as the US but for God's sake.... Hondourus, Costa Rica
?????
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| Philip Lennox Beineke |
| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 2:37 pm |
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Forza Azzurri <webmaster@forzaazzurri.com> wrote:
Quote: It just baffles the mind how a country like Canada have a difficult time
to even get to the last stage of World Cup Qualifying. I am not saying
we can be as good as the US but for God's sake.... Hondourus, Costa Rica
?????
Not so long ago, Honduras beat Slovenia 6-1.
P
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| Ken Overton |
| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:10 pm |
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Forza Azzurri wrote:
Quote: It just baffles the mind how a country like Canada have a difficult time
to even get to the last stage of World Cup Qualifying. I am not saying
we can be as good as the US but for God's sake.... Hondourus, Costa Rica
Cause it's soccer, man. Don't worry, you'd wipe em out in hockey. ;-)
-- kov |
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| Ron |
| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 5:10 pm |
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In article <I5L7qp.78F@campus-news-reading.utoronto.ca>,
Forza Azzurri <webmaster@forzaazzurri.com> wrote:
Quote: It just baffles the mind how a country like Canada have a difficult time
to even get to the last stage of World Cup Qualifying. I am not saying
we can be as good as the US but for God's sake.... Hondourus, Costa Rica
?????
Honduras and Costa Rica actually have pretty good teams.
CONCACAF qualifying is hard. Canada had bad luck on the draw, but in
either of the other groups I think they would have had a reasonable shot
at qualifying.
On the plus side, one of the big advantages of CONCACAF qualifying is
that if you do qualify, you're well tested and prepared for the World
Cup. I think a big part in U.S.'s recent improvement has been because
we're tested regularly.
-Ron |
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| Colin |
| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:12 pm |
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Quote: On the plus side, one of the big advantages of CONCACAF qualifying is
that if you do qualify, you're well tested and prepared for the World
Cup. I think a big part in U.S.'s recent improvement has been because
we're tested regularly.
I'd agree with that 100%. Already you have Mexico, USA, Guatemala and
one of Costa Rica/Honduras in the hex. You have to work to get points
off those teams. Personally, I think those four teams should end up in
the qualifying spots, but you don't want to slip up and be forced to
play the Asian qualifier.
I like the hex because the winners have certainly proven themselves to
be worthy World Cup participants. It's not like the old days where some
teams would end up getting humiliated in the World Cup itself. |
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| Lucky Devin |
| Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:40 pm |
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Quote: It just baffles the mind how a country like Canada have a difficult time
to even get to the last stage of World Cup Qualifying. I am not saying
we can be as good as the US but for God's sake.... Hondourus, Costa Rica
?????
Do you follow the sport very closely in your nation? Seriously, I'm not trying
to be an ass. Perhaps some of the Canadian RSS'ers can provide you with some
insight about this. I agree it is a shame that Canada couldn't have advanced, I
was cheering for them. Well, anybody but the Ticos...
--
Shine like a light bulb,
Devin Tregre - Neighborhood Superstar
"All this medicine has done is made me crazy, I'm startin to face it, I should
have stopped a long time ago, but I was lazy." DJ Paul |
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| Futbolmetrix |
| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:16 am |
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"MH" <nopinkstuffakaspam@ucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:416F02D6.1010607@ucalgary.ca...
Quote:
This is what puzzles me though. Why did two teams who finished third in
the semi-final group stage end up in the same group ?
CONCACAF should definitely revise its qualification scheme! How is it
possible that powerhouses like Canada are drawn in an impossible group with
CR, Honduras and Guatemala, while T&T has a direct highway to the hex?
(ducks)
Daniele |
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| Philip Lennox Beineke |
| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:46 am |
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Futbolmetrix <futbolmetrix@yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote: This is what puzzles me though. Why did two teams who finished third in
the semi-final group stage end up in the same group ?
CONCACAF should definitely revise its qualification scheme! How is it
possible that powerhouses like Canada are drawn in an impossible group with
CR, Honduras and Guatemala, while T&T has a direct highway to the hex?
(ducks)
No need to duck ... Concacaf fans are big enough to admit when
reform is needed. ;-)
(Here's a link to my time-of-the-draw reaction.)
http://tinyurl.com/4eg3t
Incidentally, it's worth mentioning that Jamaica, Costa Rica and
Honduras are now in jeopardy thanks in part to their own coaching
situations. All three countries hired a new coach right at the
dawn of this round. By contrast, Guatemala and Panama had good
coaches in place by early 2004. I think that's made a difference.
P
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| Philip Lennox Beineke |
| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:28 am |
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MH <nopinkstuffakaspam@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
Quote: They should probably make the semi-final groups bigger (say six teams),
with fewer of them (2), then things would be fairer. Teams that made the
hex the previous time should not have to qualify for the semifinal
stage, so they would not necessarily have to play more games in total.
Regardless of what happens with the semi-final round, I think
your bye suggestion is very valuable. Two teams that really got
screwed this time around were Cuba and Haiti, who despite having
shown promise in the Gold Cup were paired with Costa Rica and Jamaica
in their respective preliminary match-ups. (If C. and H. had taken the
place of St. Kitts and St. Vincent, there wouldn't be nearly as much
complaining about the current semifinal set-up.)
P
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| MH |
| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:10 am |
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Futbolmetrix wrote:
Quote: "MH" <nopinkstuffakaspam@ucalgary.ca> wrote in message
news:416F02D6.1010607@ucalgary.ca...
This is what puzzles me though. Why did two teams who finished third in
the semi-final group stage end up in the same group ?
CONCACAF should definitely revise its qualification scheme! How is it
possible that powerhouses like Canada are drawn in an impossible group with
CR, Honduras and Guatemala, while T&T has a direct highway to the hex?
(ducks)
No need to duck. The Hex is not bad as a system for picking the best 3
of 6 teams, but the previous process is far from guaranteed to pick the
best 6 in the first place.
In qualifying for 1998, Honduras were a better team than Jamaica, from
the games I saw, therefore almost certainly better than El Salvador and
Canada (who were in the same group). Guatemala had political and other
troubles then , but just may have been a better team than Canada too.
In qualifying for 2002, it would be very hard to argue that Guatemala
was not a better team than Trinidad and Tobago.
This time, I would expect 3 of the teams in Canada's group to end up in
the top 4 of the hex. Even Canada might be better than T and T.
They should probably make the semi-final groups bigger (say six teams),
with fewer of them (2), then things would be fairer. Teams that made the
hex the previous time should not have to qualify for the semifinal
stage, so they would not necessarily have to play more games in total.
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| Mark V. |
| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:10 am |
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Forza Azzurri <webmaster@forzaazzurri.com> wrote in message news:<I5L7qp.78F@campus-news-reading.utoronto.ca>...
Quote: It just baffles the mind how a country like Canada have a difficult time
to even get to the last stage of World Cup Qualifying. I am not saying
we can be as good as the US but for God's sake.... Hondourus, Costa Rica
Have you been to either of those countries? They live, breath, eat,
drink, smoke, snort, and inject soccer. Sometimes it even baffles my
mind that the *US* can beat those nations regularly. Everywhere you
look at any time of the day kids are kicking soccer balls around.
Pairs of sticks are set up in any field that is not under cultivation.
While Canada and the US are wealthy (and thus are have superior
training facilities and development) and numerically have more soccer
players, one seldom sees the 24-7 enthusiasm and dedication to the
sport you see in Central America. I have traveled around the world and
played street soccer in many places, and remember the Hondurans
(particularly those in the Caribbean area) to be as individually
skilled as anyone I've kicked it around with including Brazilians and
Spaniards. If there was an Ajax youth system in San Pedro Sula the
Hondurans would be exporting legions of players to Europe. |
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| Philip Lennox Beineke |
| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 12:21 pm |
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Jim Goloboy <goloboy@uiuc.edu> wrote:
Quote: In qualifying for 2002, it would be very hard to argue that Guatemala
was not a better team than Trinidad and Tobago.
In hindsight maybe, but remember that T&T topped their semifinal group
against Mexico and El Campeones de CONCACAF. I think the hex tends to
exaggerate the weakness of the bottom teams, because the teams that
fall behind early tend to give up in the later stages of the
competition.
.... and for T&T in 2001, Yorke and Latapy literally gave up about two
games into the Hex.
Throughout Concacaf, star players can make an awfully big impact
on their teams. In five semifinal games, Carlos Ruiz has four
goals and at least one assist. Before getting hurt, David Suazo had
two goals and a PK drawn in three games. Wanchope hasn't been at
full health but scored four goals anyway.
Even the region's powers aren't immune to such situations. Mexico
struggled without Blanco in 2001, and the US currently relies
heavily on Donovan and Beasley for offensive creativity.
What this means in terms of qualifying is that the loss of one
or two players can really alter a team's chances. That said, I'm not
sure there's a good way to modify the schedule to reduce this effect.
P
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| Steven Chung |
| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:09 pm |
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In article <416FE35A.3030101@ucalgary.ca>,
MH <nopinkstuffakaspam@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
# This time, I would expect 3 of the teams in Canada's group to end up in
# the top 4 of the hex.
Uh, that would mean either Mexico or the US not qualifying. Seems
implausible.
S. |
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| MH |
| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:09 pm |
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Steven Chung wrote:
Quote: In article <416FE35A.3030101@ucalgary.ca>,
MH <nopinkstuffakaspam@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
# This time, I would expect 3 of the teams in Canada's group to end up in
# the top 4 of the hex.
Uh, that would mean either Mexico or the US not qualifying. Seems
implausible.
Uh,sorry for the stupid way of putting it, what I meant is whichever
two of the three you choose, I would expect them to finish in the top
four. If all three went through (impossible), I would expect them all in
the top five.
And I would not be surprised to see at least one of them finish ahead of
the US or Mexico, or (less likelly) ahead of both -after all, Costa rica
did last time, and Honduras should have finished third.
> S. |
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| Mark V. |
| Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:11 pm |
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beineke@Stanford.EDU (Philip Lennox Beineke) wrote in message news:<ckoqbl$l0k$1@news.Stanford.EDU>...
Quote: MH <nopinkstuffakaspam@ucalgary.ca> wrote:
They should probably make the semi-final groups bigger (say six teams),
with fewer of them (2), then things would be fairer. Teams that made the
hex the previous time should not have to qualify for the semifinal
stage, so they would not necessarily have to play more games in total.
Regardless of what happens with the semi-final round, I think
your bye suggestion is very valuable. Two teams that really got
screwed this time around were Cuba and Haiti, who despite having
shown promise in the Gold Cup were paired with Costa Rica and Jamaica
Costa Rica and Jamaica were nearly screwed, too, if you think about
it. I'm not sure what the US did (or Costa Rica didn't do) to deserve
(or not get) a foe like Grenada. |
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