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Hobby Forum Index » Guns » anyone recognise this old German scope?...
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| Jonathan Spencer... |
 Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 3:00 am |
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Guest
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It's a small fixed power scope, probably a 4x, with 33mm ocular and
objective and a German No 1 moving reticle. It has a 22mm tube and
rimfire dovetail mounts (9.7mm closed). It's marked:
CERTAR
C.P. GOERZ
BERLIN
Nr. 14458
and then a symbol that looks like the letters C S P on top of one
another. The owner seems to think it's worth something. It's not in
bad condition and is usable. It has elevation adjustment (dial on the
top) but seems to have fixed windage. The tube may be brass (I didn't
put a magnet to it).
Comments?
http://www.jonathan-spencer.co.uk/images/RFscope/scope.jpg
http://www.jonathan-spencer.co.uk/images/RFscope/markings.jpg
--
Jonathan
A good reputation is more valuable than money.
Publilius Syrus (~100 BC), Maxims
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| Ti... |
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:14 pm |
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On Jun 21, 7:00 am, Jonathan Spencer <j... at (no spam) jonathan-spencer.co.uk>
wrote:
I have one also, on an 03-A3, the rings on mine are not split, they
were installed when the scope was manufactured. I can not replace the
scope (it will not hold zero) without taking it apart!). It is marked
same as yours, though the number is 13,3xx . I may send it off to be
repaired. Fascinating history of Goerz available by googling. He
partnered with Anshutz, cameras, lens and such, plus the military
work.
Ti (New Mexico)
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| ... |
| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:49 pm |
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Guest
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On Jun 27, 4:14 pm, Ti <tipi... at (no spam) tipiper.com> wrote:
# On Jun 21, 7:00 am, Jonathan Spencer <j... at (no spam) jonathan-spencer.co.uk>
# wrote:
# > ...
#
# I have one also, on an 03-A3, the rings on mine are not split, they
# were installed when the scope was manufactured. I can not replace the
# scope (it will not hold zero) without taking it apart!). It is marked
# same as yours, though the number is 13,3xx . I may send it off to be
# repaired. Fascinating history of Goerz available by googling. He
# partnered with Anshutz, cameras, lens and such, plus the military
# work.
#
# Ti (New Mexico)
#
Not necessarily true, scopes were frequently dismantled in order to
install rings in the "olden days", They weren't weatherproof, so no
seals. all it took was the right tools and skills. There were no
standard mounts, every manufacturer had their own ideas. A lot of
rings on the old scopes were sweated onto the tubes. Also no internal
adjustments, the reticle was fixed internally, the adjustments were in
the mount. Made for simple disassembly, anyway.
The O.P.s scope has rings that bear some resemblance to some scopes
that are in a drilling book I have, but, again, each maker had his own
ideas, impossible to tell what it actually went to. Integrated scope/
mount systems are relatively new. Usual procedure was to buy the
scope, then get it fitted to the rifle-maker's rings and mount.
The optics maker didn't necessarily even sell mounts. Goerz made a
lot of different types of optics, I've got a few lenses for Exacta SLR
cameras made by them. Pre-war and coated, unusual for the time.
As far as value, if he can find the gun it goes to or one like it,
yes, otherwise, not a whole lot. As a user, it's got a lot against
it, for a collector, it's just another old scope with a funny mount.
Stan
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| Ti... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:40 pm |
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Stan, great info there, thanks.
The rings are one piece, though they are split on top, I loosened them
and the rings are free to slide on the scope's tube.
Windage is by a worm screw on the base of the rear ring. The rear ring
is marked GERMAN.
The unit came Installed on a Springfield '03-A3, the front base is
screwed in, the rear base is sweated on to the top of the receiver by
the serial number.
An RIA from about 1910 (by the serial number 191xxx) and by the
barrel, a 4 grove marked RIA 11-10.
Claw mounts. Wonderful stuff. I got this rig in 1975 or so, put down
twenty bucks every paycheck for a month. Put hundreds of surplus US .
30-'06 ammo and moderate handloads through it. Never had a problem
with the action, but it would not put two bullets anywhere near each
other using the scope.
Lots of good info on Goerz, fun to research, and the rifle is fun to
shoot, I glass bedded it to see if it would shoot better, that did not
help, I never understood that the scope could be the problem. Strange
that this Goerz has a 7/8" tube, I would have thought it would be to a
metric standard. Frankford Arsenal made up some Goerz's, according to
some original document research by one of the sniper rifle history
books, though I don't know what this means. Here is the quote:
"Examples tested included a copy of a German Goerz scope made by
Frankford Arsenal, as well as scopes by Casey and Zeiss prismatic
sights." unquote. from this webpage:
http://books.google.com/books?id=-mkh931pIugC&pg=PA204&dq=goerz+rifle+scope&ei=tHBpSPybJoSKjAGg9JyhCw&sig=ACfU3U0evWlFIjHJfR5-DbFg2c1CLPtMTg
We put on a weaver rear open metal sight and shot a 50 yard target a
couple weeks back, it was a decent group for some random ammo out of a
100 year old action/barrel. Cleaned the barrel and I will start
working up a mild, 100 yard load, using the metal sights, and then
switch back to the scope to see what happens.
Ti
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Win a Fulton Armory AR-15 "Game Gun" while supporting RKBA.
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| David R.Birch... |
| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:56 pm |
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Guest
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Ti wrote:
# Stan, great info there, thanks.
#
# The rings are one piece, though they are split on top, I loosened them
# and the rings are free to slide on the scope's tube.
#
# Windage is by a worm screw on the base of the rear ring. The rear ring
# is marked GERMAN.
#
# The unit came Installed on a Springfield '03-A3, the front base is
# screwed in, the rear base is sweated on to the top of the receiver by
# the serial number.
#
# An RIA from about 1910 (by the serial number 191xxx) and by the
# barrel, a 4 grove marked RIA 11-10.
This is a 1903 made at Rock Island, Illinois, not an 03A3.
David
-----------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.net
Win a Fulton Armory AR-15 "Game Gun" while supporting RKBA.
Details at http://www.myguns.net
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