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| Vinny |
 Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:06 am |
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OK, you probably have read here many times to stay away from a pistol
gripped shotgun. I know when I was trying to find out I got scared away
from a pistol grip but then realized that much of what I read on the
web is not accurate or from uninformed sources. I did what everyone
should do, gain first hand experience.
I bought a TacStar pistol grip, put it on my Mossberg 590 and went to
the range. Realizing that a pistol grip is not as stable a platform as
a full stock I tested with low recoil ammo for the harder hitting
rounds. I also obtained some good advice from a person who actually
uses a pistol gripped shotgun. That advice was to aim the shotgun like
a pistol and sight as you would if you were shooting a full stock
shotgun. Most people talk about not being able to hit anything with a
pistol gripped shotgun and assume that you shoot from the hip. I am no
expert but it would seem to me that shooting from the hip with any
weapon is inaccurate.
Anyway I shot some low recoil 00 Buck and slugs, and some #6 and #8
full load rounds. 12 rounds in all at 15 yards, more than adequate for
my home defense needs. I hit the target each time. I raised the shotgun
like a pistol, extended it so that the recoil would not drive it into
my face and sighted as I would normally. No problem. The recoil was
much milder than I was lead to believe it would be. After 12 rounds I
did feel it in the web of my hand but I could have gone another 6
rounds easily. I was satisfied that I could hit a man at home defense
ranges with a pistol gripped shotgun so I left the pistol grip on.
In conclusion, a full stock shotgun is more stable and more accurate
than a pistol gripped one BUT a pistol gripped shotgun can be effective
at home distances if one practices with it, sights it like a pistol and
is not recoil shy.
If you are interested in equipping your shotgun with a pistol grip try
it out for yourself. It may work for you as it did for me. Do not avoid
it because of something your read or heard from a stranger.
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| michaelb8309@yahoo.com |
| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:18 am |
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Guest
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Vinny wrote:
# OK, you probably have read here many times to stay away from a pistol
# gripped shotgun. I know when I was trying to find out I got scared
away
# from a pistol grip but then realized that much of what I read on the
# web is not accurate or from uninformed sources.
# In conclusion, a full stock shotgun is more stable and more accurate
# than a pistol gripped one BUT a pistol gripped shotgun can be
effective
# at home distances if one practices with it, sights it like a pistol
and
# is not recoil shy.
Vinny, As you yourself acknowledge it is easier to get hits quickly and
accurately with a full stock shotgun. Sure, given enough practice a
fella can get the hits with a pistol gripped 12 gauge, but it is a
comprimise solution for an event in which you'll need every advantage.
Why comprimise? Be well. Michael
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| Keith |
| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:18 am |
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Vinny wrote:
"In conclusion, a full stock shotgun is more stable and more accurate
than a pistol gripped one BUT a pistol gripped shotgun can be effective
at home distances if one practices with it, sights it like a pistol and
is not recoil shy.
If you are interested in equipping your shotgun with a pistol grip try
it out for yourself. It may work for you as it did for me. Do not avoid
it because of something your read or heard from a stranger."
My 2¢. . . . .
While a shotgun is NOT my first choice for home defense, I do have a
Remington 870 Express outfitted with a slug barrel and with a Choate
pistol-grip shoulder stock and Pachmayr forend. (Slug barrel + #4 Buck
= potent combination.)
The concern I have (and this has been beaten into the ground) is what
the lawyers, etc. will say about "needing to modify the weapon to make
it more of a killing machine," or something to that effect.
In conclusion, for me, having a shoulder stock, whether it be factory
(or something else) versus a pistol grip stock only. . . I will stick
to the shoulder stocked firearm.
I am not the only one in the house that MIGHT need to use a firearm.
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| Derek V. |
| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:38 pm |
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Vinny, the advantage in replacing a full length stock with a pistolgrip
is in the reduced overall length of the shotgun.
If you want to extend the range of the shotgun beyond about 25 yards
for self defense, that would call for slugs and a buttstock. Within
the 25 yard limit for buckshot, I find the pistol grip shotgun
acceptable, but more difficult to manage with one hand because of the
balance.
The advantages of a pistol grip on a shotgun are most noticed when
trying to move with it in confined spaces, such as hallways and
passenger compartments of vehicles.
They don't make the idea universal defense piece, but they do fill a
niche in the close defense arsenal.
Derek V.
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| Vinny |
| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:38 pm |
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Ah, but in my case I have an "L" shaped hallway upstairs with walls and
doorways on one side and a railing on the other. I can not manuever the
full stocked shotgun. I tried many times and if I turned I hit the
railing. If I raised the barrel from the low ready position I hit the
railing, etc. With the pistol grip on I can maneuver the shotgun.
I hit 12 out of 12 the first time out at 15 yards so it is not that
hard at in home distances. It is very similar to shooting the new S&W
500 but with less recoil. Just raise it, sight down the barrel and
shoot. :)
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| Vinny |
| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 6:38 pm |
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I do not understand why so many posts bring up the lawyers without
actually citing any cases where this was an issue. Ask an attorney and
you will find that though it may be mentioned no one seems to have been
convicted because they used a pistol grip or used a mean looking gun.
The purpose of the trial is to determine if the shooting was justified
or not. If justified you are allowed to use any legal weapon so what
you use is not the issue in the trail. When you are allowed to kill to
defend yourself what difference does it make if one gun is more
effecient than another. Think about it. Most of the lawyer stuff that
floats around this newsgroup is unfounded conjecture from people who do
not understand the law.
If I could I would use the stock but space constraints does not allow
me to do this. I have walls and a railing on either side of me and the
shotgun can no be maneuvered well with the full stock. With the pistol
grip I can turn and carry better. I can even lean over the railing and
shoot if need be. For me it works. For others with hallways and cramped
quarters it can work too but they should try it for themselves first.
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| Michael A. Ball |
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:16 am |
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On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 13:06:57 +0000 (UTC), "Vinny"
<vinnynj@optonline.net> wrote:
#OK, you probably have read here many times to stay away from a pistol
#gripped shotgun...
I have a Remington 870, home defense model, with pistol grips front and
rear. I really like everything about it. However, whenever practical,
I'd rather rely on my .45 ACP.
Zildjian: world class cymbal of excellence.
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| michaelb8309@yahoo.com |
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:24 pm |
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Guest
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Vinny wrote:
# Ah, but in my case I have an "L" shaped hallway upstairs with walls
and
# doorways on one side and a railing on the other. I can not manuever
the
# full stocked shotgun. I tried many times and if I turned I hit the
# railing. If I raised the barrel from the low ready position I hit the
# railing, etc. With the pistol grip on I can maneuver the shotgun.
Vinny, That explains why you have made the compromise (if not why you
are chasing bad guys around the house in the dark, or why you have not
chosen a pistol for such work). In any case there are other ways to
get a shotgun that is shorter than than an full stock 18 inch pump.
For example a double barrel hammer gun with a youth-sized length of
pull will take up much less space in your narrow hallway (though
fitting a weapon light will test your ingenuity). Whatever you choose
be sure attend a course of professional instruction as soon as
possible. Good luck to you. Michael
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| Christopher Morton |
| Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:24 pm |
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On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 02:38:38 +0000 (UTC), "Vinny"
<vinnynj@optonline.net> wrote:
#If I could I would use the stock but space constraints does not allow
#me to do this. I have walls and a railing on either side of me and the
#shotgun can no be maneuvered well with the full stock. With the pistol
#grip I can turn and carry better. I can even lean over the railing and
#shoot if need be. For me it works. For others with hallways and cramped
#quarters it can work too but they should try it for themselves first.
I'm coming late to this discussion, but have you ever fired a shotgun
with a pistol grip?
It HURTS. That's going to if nothing else, affect your desire to
practice.
A friend used to have a pistol grip on a beater Mossberg 500. That
thing was awful to shoot. I'll shoot my Ithaca DS/PS all day with the
stock.
--
More blood for oil... in my name!
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| Banshee |
| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 8:17 am |
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all pistol grips are not the same. the best one for controlling recoil
is the one that remington put on the Witness protection shotgun
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