"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3ZSdna7zfrnAgGfXnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hdcpcc$g7n$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:aLOdnTku4p9sQWTXnZ2dnUVZ_tqdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"H the K" <groundzero at (no spam) snerkville.com> wrote in message
news:_8mdneDy8I2DG2TXnZ2dnUVZ_hNi4p2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...
On 11/10/09 10:13 AM, Don White wrote:
"Bill McKee"<bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:R5idnSMu15AGRGXXnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

Maybe in Maryland. Hell a majority of the babies delivered at San
Diego
hospitals are illegals kids. Los Angeles spent $50 million on
welfare
benefits, most on illegals in just one month this year.


You should be thinking of that when you're crusin' for cheap labour
in those
'shape-up lines' behind Home Depot




Illegals' kids? Ahh...but born in the USA. Legal kids.



And the kids should not be given legal status.

If they're born in the US, their citizens. Been that way a fairly long
time. :)

--
Nom=de=Plume


See my other reply.

Not sure who you mean by "they." It's a pretty straightforward legal
status.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Does_a_child_of_two_illegal_immigrants_acquire_US_citizenship_by_being_born_in_the_US

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:O-adnUyKfoqBg2fXnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
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"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
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"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
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"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:289hf55jaq8bbfih68ofrvd19hpip2tnsf at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:55:57 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:njfff59qq8ngiskkbtv3qja8df9lv7c9e3 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:07:50 -0700, Canuck57
Canuck57 at (no spam) nospam.com
wrote:

nom=de=plume wrote:
"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:4hqcf5hhn7mace2hfhn9v22tbjg7aqnub7 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
Tonight at 11:15 pm EST, by a 220 to 215 vote, the House
passed their
version of Health Care Reform.

Among the most meaningful pieces of legislation in history
making it
through one body of congress is a big deal. There's lots of
work left
but I'm damned happy a major bridge has been crossed.

All you folks who hate your fellow Americans and don't think
it's
worth the investment have my sympathy.


One lone Republican voted for it. 39 Democrats opposed. That
pisses me
off.
Well, it's on to the Senate. I'm sure they'll do something by
2015. :(

Lets hope they bog it down and 2010 becomes an election issue on
the
very point. A decision this big needs direct voting on the
issue.
Hell, if the majority wants government to nationalize health
care, so be
it. But I suspect when people take the time to read, this is a
hidden
tax grab. Get the cash flow to the government and then turn
down
survice levels while they skim the moneys.

The polls are very clear in that Americans want health care
reform.

Haley Barbour was on Meet the Press today insisting the majority
of
Americans don't want health care reform. I don't know of a
single
poll, apart from heavy Republican districts, who are against
health
care reform.

Lying straight faced is Republican strong suit.

Yes, the people are for health care reform. Or really cheaper
healthcare.
But do they want the government telling them what services they
can have?

Oy. Doesn't that happen right now? What makes you think the
government is going to deny any more procedures or care than the
profit making health care business?

The government has never run anything cheaper than private
industry.

Oh boy, here we go. Isn't most medicare administration done by
private industry?

And
ramming through a "healthcare reform" bill in a short time in the
back room
and then voting on it less than 3 days later, leads to those
FUCKED UP laws
that the unintended consequences are worse than the cure. The
Feds should
be working on creating sustainable jobs, cutting spending and
curing a
depression first.

Don't you think keeping people solvent who might otherwise be
swamped
by medical costs is a good investment?

Perhaps it's not the first consideration in getting us back on our
economic feet but it's up there.

Did President Bush focus only on invading Iraq or was he also
working
on making the Chinese-funded tax cuts for US rich permanent?

jps, you seem to be a one trick pony. Everything is fubar because
Bush invaded the Middle East. Ain't so, and until you can come up
with resonable debates: kiss my ass!

I find it difficult to find one thing that Bush did with actual
compassionate results. Perhaps the Africa AIDS program, but even
that was messed up.

--
Nom=de=Plume


I stated that jps believes all the crap is Bush's fault. Everything
was perfect before Bush 2. Except We are still spending money in
Bosnia, look what a fine place Clinton left Somalia. Bush was not
the one who signed the bill to let banks be brokerage houses.
Something that had worked well after the 1929 crash. I hope you did
better reading on your patent searches.

Somalia? That's pretty insignificant in the scheme of things.
Bosnia... we did a lot of good there. Do you deny that?

It's not all Bush's fault. He just was a significant contributor ...
more than anyone else.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Bush just added to the Clusterf*&k. Somalia, killed a lot of our men
for nothing. Bosnia was not our problem, we had no right to interfere.
And Albanians and Serbs have been killing each other for 600 years.
Let Europe take care of the problem if needed, was their playground.
How many billions we waste there? And we are still there.


Bush promoted the clusterfk, but ok. Somalia was a mistake, but
thousands of our troops didn't die. "any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind").

We saved lives in Bosnia, and it was necessary to "interfere" in ethnic
cleansing. We should have intervened in Rwanda and we should intervene
in Darfur. Don't forget that WW2 started in the region.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Why should we interfere in Bosnia because of ethic cleansing? Ruwanda
was a lot better place to interfere. Bosnia has had Albanians cleansing
Serbs and Serbs cleansing Albanians for centuries. But the Albanians
seem to have the upper hand in all the years. They ran death camps for
the NAZI and even some of the Germans were grossed out by the gusto that
they went about the job. Are we the police department for Europe?


Besides the second question (answer is no), I'm not sure what point you're
trying to make. We saved lives there. The intervention worked.

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:16:05 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:4tvjf5tf5cg6gdhnbqa2rm52iraehq6j6g at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:44:40 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hdc6tf$amc$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:19SdneQFGpyalGTXnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hdanb4$fk3$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:xvCdnXJ5qcWKR2XXnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:289hf55jaq8bbfih68ofrvd19hpip2tnsf at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:55:57 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:njfff59qq8ngiskkbtv3qja8df9lv7c9e3 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:07:50 -0700, Canuck57
Canuck57 at (no spam) nospam.com
wrote:

nom=de=plume wrote:
"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:4hqcf5hhn7mace2hfhn9v22tbjg7aqnub7 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
Tonight at 11:15 pm EST, by a 220 to 215 vote, the House
passed
their
version of Health Care Reform.

Among the most meaningful pieces of legislation in history
making
it
through one body of congress is a big deal. There's lots of
work
left
but I'm damned happy a major bridge has been crossed.

All you folks who hate your fellow Americans and don't think
it's
worth the investment have my sympathy.


One lone Republican voted for it. 39 Democrats opposed. That
pisses me
off.
Well, it's on to the Senate. I'm sure they'll do something by
2015. :(

Lets hope they bog it down and 2010 becomes an election issue on
the
very point. A decision this big needs direct voting on the
issue.
Hell, if the majority wants government to nationalize health
care,
so be
it. But I suspect when people take the time to read, this is a
hidden
tax grab. Get the cash flow to the government and then turn
down
survice levels while they skim the moneys.

The polls are very clear in that Americans want health care
reform.

Haley Barbour was on Meet the Press today insisting the majority
of
Americans don't want health care reform. I don't know of a
single
poll, apart from heavy Republican districts, who are against
health
care reform.

Lying straight faced is Republican strong suit.

Yes, the people are for health care reform. Or really cheaper
healthcare.
But do they want the government telling them what services they
can
have?

Oy. Doesn't that happen right now? What makes you think the
government is going to deny any more procedures or care than the
profit making health care business?

The government has never run anything cheaper than private
industry.

Oh boy, here we go. Isn't most medicare administration done by
private industry?

And
ramming through a "healthcare reform" bill in a short time in the
back
room
and then voting on it less than 3 days later, leads to those
FUCKED
UP
laws
that the unintended consequences are worse than the cure. The
Feds
should
be working on creating sustainable jobs, cutting spending and
curing
a
depression first.

Don't you think keeping people solvent who might otherwise be
swamped
by medical costs is a good investment?

Perhaps it's not the first consideration in getting us back on our
economic feet but it's up there.

Did President Bush focus only on invading Iraq or was he also
working
on making the Chinese-funded tax cuts for US rich permanent?

jps, you seem to be a one trick pony. Everything is fubar because
Bush
invaded the Middle East. Ain't so, and until you can come up with
resonable debates: kiss my ass!

I find it difficult to find one thing that Bush did with actual
compassionate results. Perhaps the Africa AIDS program, but even
that
was messed up.

--
Nom=de=Plume


I stated that jps believes all the crap is Bush's fault. Everything
was
perfect before Bush 2. Except We are still spending money in Bosnia,
look what a fine place Clinton left Somalia. Bush was not the one
who
signed the bill to let banks be brokerage houses. Something that had
worked well after the 1929 crash. I hope you did better reading on
your
patent searches.

Somalia? That's pretty insignificant in the scheme of things.
Bosnia...
we
did a lot of good there. Do you deny that?

It's not all Bush's fault. He just was a significant contributor ...
more
than anyone else.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Bush just added to the Clusterf*&k. Somalia, killed a lot of our men
for
nothing. Bosnia was not our problem, we had no right to interfere. And
Albanians and Serbs have been killing each other for 600 years. Let
Europe
take care of the problem if needed, was their playground. How many
billions
we waste there? And we are still there.

Please tell us how many billions we've wasted in Bosnia.

Then tell us how many billions it takes to make a trillion x 3. Can
you say several orders of magnitude?

A billion hear a billion there, and you are talking real money. How many
billions has Obama overspent in the last 10 months?

What's wrong, don't want to answer the question?

Facts in context reveal some nasty truths don't they?

Bosnia is a drop in the very large bucket that Bush opened up to pay
for Iraq.

Some for sure... can't be helped really. Not nearly as much as Bush wasted
in his administration.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:2cfkf55lm1a8merivbdcnus0nplmgb1vua at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:16:05 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:4tvjf5tf5cg6gdhnbqa2rm52iraehq6j6g at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:44:40 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hdc6tf$amc$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:19SdneQFGpyalGTXnZ2dnUVZ_qednZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hdanb4$fk3$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:xvCdnXJ5qcWKR2XXnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:289hf55jaq8bbfih68ofrvd19hpip2tnsf at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:55:57 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:njfff59qq8ngiskkbtv3qja8df9lv7c9e3 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:07:50 -0700, Canuck57
Canuck57 at (no spam) nospam.com
wrote:

nom=de=plume wrote:
"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:4hqcf5hhn7mace2hfhn9v22tbjg7aqnub7 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
Tonight at 11:15 pm EST, by a 220 to 215 vote, the House
passed
their
version of Health Care Reform.

Among the most meaningful pieces of legislation in history
making
it
through one body of congress is a big deal. There's lots of
work
left
but I'm damned happy a major bridge has been crossed.

All you folks who hate your fellow Americans and don't think
it's
worth the investment have my sympathy.


One lone Republican voted for it. 39 Democrats opposed. That
pisses me
off.
Well, it's on to the Senate. I'm sure they'll do something by
2015. :(

Lets hope they bog it down and 2010 becomes an election issue on
the
very point. A decision this big needs direct voting on the
issue.
Hell, if the majority wants government to nationalize health
care,
so be
it. But I suspect when people take the time to read, this is a
hidden
tax grab. Get the cash flow to the government and then turn
down
survice levels while they skim the moneys.

The polls are very clear in that Americans want health care
reform.

Haley Barbour was on Meet the Press today insisting the majority
of
Americans don't want health care reform. I don't know of a
single
poll, apart from heavy Republican districts, who are against
health
care reform.

Lying straight faced is Republican strong suit.

Yes, the people are for health care reform. Or really cheaper
healthcare.
But do they want the government telling them what services they
can
have?

Oy. Doesn't that happen right now? What makes you think the
government is going to deny any more procedures or care than the
profit making health care business?

The government has never run anything cheaper than private
industry.

Oh boy, here we go. Isn't most medicare administration done by
private industry?

And
ramming through a "healthcare reform" bill in a short time in the
back
room
and then voting on it less than 3 days later, leads to those
FUCKED
UP
laws
that the unintended consequences are worse than the cure. The
Feds
should
be working on creating sustainable jobs, cutting spending and
curing
a
depression first.

Don't you think keeping people solvent who might otherwise be
swamped
by medical costs is a good investment?

Perhaps it's not the first consideration in getting us back on our
economic feet but it's up there.

Did President Bush focus only on invading Iraq or was he also
working
on making the Chinese-funded tax cuts for US rich permanent?

jps, you seem to be a one trick pony. Everything is fubar because
Bush
invaded the Middle East. Ain't so, and until you can come up with
resonable debates: kiss my ass!

I find it difficult to find one thing that Bush did with actual
compassionate results. Perhaps the Africa AIDS program, but even
that
was messed up.

--
Nom=de=Plume


I stated that jps believes all the crap is Bush's fault. Everything
was
perfect before Bush 2. Except We are still spending money in Bosnia,
look what a fine place Clinton left Somalia. Bush was not the one
who
signed the bill to let banks be brokerage houses. Something that had
worked well after the 1929 crash. I hope you did better reading on
your
patent searches.

Somalia? That's pretty insignificant in the scheme of things.
Bosnia...
we
did a lot of good there. Do you deny that?

It's not all Bush's fault. He just was a significant contributor ...
more
than anyone else.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Bush just added to the Clusterf*&k. Somalia, killed a lot of our men
for
nothing. Bosnia was not our problem, we had no right to interfere. And
Albanians and Serbs have been killing each other for 600 years. Let
Europe
take care of the problem if needed, was their playground. How many
billions
we waste there? And we are still there.

Please tell us how many billions we've wasted in Bosnia.

Then tell us how many billions it takes to make a trillion x 3. Can
you say several orders of magnitude?

A billion hear a billion there, and you are talking real money. How many
billions has Obama overspent in the last 10 months?

What's wrong, don't want to answer the question?

Facts in context reveal some nasty truths don't they?

Bosnia is a drop in the very large bucket that Bush opened up to pay
for Iraq.

If it does not matter how much Bosnia costs. then you have to ignore the
financials of Iraq. Both are wars, and both cost lots of money, and both
are places we most likely should have not gone. I realize you are blind in
your partisanship.

"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
Some for sure... can't be helped really. Not nearly as much as Bush wasted
in his administration.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Youe opinion. But all Obama's spending has not turned around the recession.
Percentage of unemployment still rising, and that excludes those that have
given up on getting a job. The stock market is mostly a bubble driven by
all the money given to "too big to fail" financial houses. Which have now
decided to give billions of bonus money, even though they have not really
made any money, just a huge infusion of taxpayers $$$$$$$$. We have the
next wave of mortages going to fail. The not subprime ones. The bailout
was to supposed to buy toxic mortgages. None bought, so what did the banks
do with the money. Gold broke $1100. Most of the rise is the falling
dollar. What happens when China wants to cash in all that debt we owe them.

"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:mbSdnc58doqp7WfXnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hddpj3$dim$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:MPudnaIWH6QMyWfXnZ2dnUVZ_jKdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hddejd$c0h$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:O-adnUyKfoqBg2fXnZ2dnUVZ_jOdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
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news:5J-dnUmkYbNVQ2TXnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hdc6tf$amc$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
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"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hdanb4$fk3$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:xvCdnXJ5qcWKR2XXnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:289hf55jaq8bbfih68ofrvd19hpip2tnsf at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:55:57 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:njfff59qq8ngiskkbtv3qja8df9lv7c9e3 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:07:50 -0700, Canuck57
Canuck57 at (no spam) nospam.com
wrote:

nom=de=plume wrote:
"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:4hqcf5hhn7mace2hfhn9v22tbjg7aqnub7 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
Tonight at 11:15 pm EST, by a 220 to 215 vote, the House
passed their
version of Health Care Reform.

Among the most meaningful pieces of legislation in
history making it
through one body of congress is a big deal. There's lots
of work left
but I'm damned happy a major bridge has been crossed.

All you folks who hate your fellow Americans and don't
think it's
worth the investment have my sympathy.


One lone Republican voted for it. 39 Democrats opposed.
That pisses me
off.
Well, it's on to the Senate. I'm sure they'll do something
by 2015. :(

Lets hope they bog it down and 2010 becomes an election
issue on the
very point. A decision this big needs direct voting on the
issue.
Hell, if the majority wants government to nationalize health
care, so be
it. But I suspect when people take the time to read, this
is a hidden
tax grab. Get the cash flow to the government and then turn
down
survice levels while they skim the moneys.

The polls are very clear in that Americans want health care
reform.

Haley Barbour was on Meet the Press today insisting the
majority of
Americans don't want health care reform. I don't know of a
single
poll, apart from heavy Republican districts, who are against
health
care reform.

Lying straight faced is Republican strong suit.

Yes, the people are for health care reform. Or really cheaper
healthcare.
But do they want the government telling them what services
they can have?

Oy. Doesn't that happen right now? What makes you think the
government is going to deny any more procedures or care than
the
profit making health care business?

The government has never run anything cheaper than private
industry.

Oh boy, here we go. Isn't most medicare administration done
by
private industry?

And
ramming through a "healthcare reform" bill in a short time in
the back room
and then voting on it less than 3 days later, leads to those
FUCKED UP laws
that the unintended consequences are worse than the cure. The
Feds should
be working on creating sustainable jobs, cutting spending and
curing a
depression first.

Don't you think keeping people solvent who might otherwise be
swamped
by medical costs is a good investment?

Perhaps it's not the first consideration in getting us back on
our
economic feet but it's up there.

Did President Bush focus only on invading Iraq or was he also
working
on making the Chinese-funded tax cuts for US rich permanent?

jps, you seem to be a one trick pony. Everything is fubar
because Bush invaded the Middle East. Ain't so, and until you
can come up with resonable debates: kiss my ass!

I find it difficult to find one thing that Bush did with actual
compassionate results. Perhaps the Africa AIDS program, but even
that was messed up.

--
Nom=de=Plume


I stated that jps believes all the crap is Bush's fault.
Everything was perfect before Bush 2. Except We are still
spending money in Bosnia, look what a fine place Clinton left
Somalia. Bush was not the one who signed the bill to let banks
be brokerage houses. Something that had worked well after the
1929 crash. I hope you did better reading on your patent
searches.

Somalia? That's pretty insignificant in the scheme of things.
Bosnia... we did a lot of good there. Do you deny that?

It's not all Bush's fault. He just was a significant contributor
... more than anyone else.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Bush just added to the Clusterf*&k. Somalia, killed a lot of our
men for nothing. Bosnia was not our problem, we had no right to
interfere. And Albanians and Serbs have been killing each other for
600 years. Let Europe take care of the problem if needed, was their
playground. How many billions we waste there? And we are still
there.


Bush promoted the clusterfk, but ok. Somalia was a mistake, but
thousands of our troops didn't die. "any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind").

We saved lives in Bosnia, and it was necessary to "interfere" in
ethnic cleansing. We should have intervened in Rwanda and we should
intervene in Darfur. Don't forget that WW2 started in the region.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Why should we interfere in Bosnia because of ethic cleansing?
Ruwanda was a lot better place to interfere. Bosnia has had
Albanians cleansing Serbs and Serbs cleansing Albanians for
centuries. But the Albanians seem to have the upper hand in all the
years. They ran death camps for the NAZI and even some of the
Germans were grossed out by the gusto that they went about the job.
Are we the police department for Europe?


Besides the second question (answer is no), I'm not sure what point
you're trying to make. We saved lives there. The intervention worked.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Did we save lives? Maybe. They are still killing Serbs now that
Bosnia is non serb. Still not our place to go in. If you argue it is
because of ethnic cleansing, then you have to say Iraq is a good war,
and we should be there. Saddam was trying to ethnic cleanse Kurds.

?? Did you not listen to the news? Give me a break.

Yeah, Saddam was a bad guy, but the justification to attack Iraq was
not, as you well know, his human rights abuses. It was all about
non-existent WMDs.

--
Nom=de=Plume


I know what the stated reasons were. But if jps is going to claim Bosnia
was a good war because it prevented ethnic cleansing, he then has to
claim Iraq is a good war. cruel isn't it.

There's no "good" war. There are justifiable wars. The Bosnian war
prevented some, but not all ethnic cleansing. There was no such
consideration in Iraq.

--
Nom=de=Plume

"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
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"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
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"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
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On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:16:05 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:4tvjf5tf5cg6gdhnbqa2rm52iraehq6j6g at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:44:40 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
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"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
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"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
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On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 11:55:57 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:njfff59qq8ngiskkbtv3qja8df9lv7c9e3 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 19:07:50 -0700, Canuck57
Canuck57 at (no spam) nospam.com
wrote:

nom=de=plume wrote:
"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:4hqcf5hhn7mace2hfhn9v22tbjg7aqnub7 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
Tonight at 11:15 pm EST, by a 220 to 215 vote, the House
passed
their
version of Health Care Reform.

Among the most meaningful pieces of legislation in
history
making
it
through one body of congress is a big deal. There's lots
of
work
left
but I'm damned happy a major bridge has been crossed.

All you folks who hate your fellow Americans and don't
think
it's
worth the investment have my sympathy.


One lone Republican voted for it. 39 Democrats opposed.
That
pisses me
off.
Well, it's on to the Senate. I'm sure they'll do something
by
2015. :(

Lets hope they bog it down and 2010 becomes an election
issue on
the
very point. A decision this big needs direct voting on the
issue.
Hell, if the majority wants government to nationalize health
care,
so be
it. But I suspect when people take the time to read, this
is a
hidden
tax grab. Get the cash flow to the government and then turn
down
survice levels while they skim the moneys.

The polls are very clear in that Americans want health care
reform.

Haley Barbour was on Meet the Press today insisting the
majority
of
Americans don't want health care reform. I don't know of a
single
poll, apart from heavy Republican districts, who are against
health
care reform.

Lying straight faced is Republican strong suit.

Yes, the people are for health care reform. Or really cheaper
healthcare.
But do they want the government telling them what services
they can
have?

Oy. Doesn't that happen right now? What makes you think the
government is going to deny any more procedures or care than
the
profit making health care business?

The government has never run anything cheaper than private
industry.

Oh boy, here we go. Isn't most medicare administration done
by
private industry?

And
ramming through a "healthcare reform" bill in a short time in
the
back
room
and then voting on it less than 3 days later, leads to those
FUCKED
UP
laws
that the unintended consequences are worse than the cure. The
Feds
should
be working on creating sustainable jobs, cutting spending and
curing
a
depression first.

Don't you think keeping people solvent who might otherwise be
swamped
by medical costs is a good investment?

Perhaps it's not the first consideration in getting us back on
our
economic feet but it's up there.

Did President Bush focus only on invading Iraq or was he also
working
on making the Chinese-funded tax cuts for US rich permanent?

jps, you seem to be a one trick pony. Everything is fubar
because
Bush
invaded the Middle East. Ain't so, and until you can come up
with
resonable debates: kiss my ass!

I find it difficult to find one thing that Bush did with actual
compassionate results. Perhaps the Africa AIDS program, but even
that
was messed up.

--
Nom=de=Plume


I stated that jps believes all the crap is Bush's fault.
Everything
was
perfect before Bush 2. Except We are still spending money in
Bosnia,
look what a fine place Clinton left Somalia. Bush was not the
one who
signed the bill to let banks be brokerage houses. Something that
had
worked well after the 1929 crash. I hope you did better reading
on
your
patent searches.

Somalia? That's pretty insignificant in the scheme of things.
Bosnia...
we
did a lot of good there. Do you deny that?

It's not all Bush's fault. He just was a significant contributor
...
more
than anyone else.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Bush just added to the Clusterf*&k. Somalia, killed a lot of our
men for
nothing. Bosnia was not our problem, we had no right to interfere.
And
Albanians and Serbs have been killing each other for 600 years. Let
Europe
take care of the problem if needed, was their playground. How many
billions
we waste there? And we are still there.

Please tell us how many billions we've wasted in Bosnia.

Then tell us how many billions it takes to make a trillion x 3. Can
you say several orders of magnitude?

A billion hear a billion there, and you are talking real money. How
many
billions has Obama overspent in the last 10 months?

What's wrong, don't want to answer the question?

Facts in context reveal some nasty truths don't they?

Bosnia is a drop in the very large bucket that Bush opened up to pay
for Iraq.

If it does not matter how much Bosnia costs. then you have to ignore
the financials of Iraq. Both are wars, and both cost lots of money,
and both are places we most likely should have not gone. I realize you
are blind in your partisanship.

The former was well explained and justified. The latter was based on
fabrication. Big diff.

--
Nom=de=Plume


The former was not really justified. Better PR on it, but was not a
place we should have gone.

In your opinion. In the opinion of the rest of the world however....

--
Nom=de=Plume

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 08:44:43 -0800, "nom=de=plume"
nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote:

"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:L_mdnTBKJbR27WfXnZ2dnUVZ_tCdnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
news:hddpmv$e8j$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org...
"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:2cOdnQ5_y-UKy2fXnZ2dnUVZ_h6dnZ2d at (no spam) earthlink.com...

"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
Some for sure... can't be helped really. Not nearly as much as Bush
wasted in his administration.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Youe opinion. But all Obama's spending has not turned around the
recession. Percentage of unemployment still rising, and that excludes
those that have given up on getting a job. The stock market is mostly
a
bubble driven by all the money given to "too big to fail" financial
houses. Which have now decided to give billions of bonus money, even
though they have not really made any money, just a huge infusion of
taxpayers $$$$$$$$. We have the next wave of mortages going to fail.
The not subprime ones. The bailout was to supposed to buy toxic
mortgages. None bought, so what did the banks do with the money. Gold
broke $1100. Most of the rise is the falling dollar. What happens
when
China wants to cash in all that debt we owe them.

Bush's tax cut for the wealthy is my opinion????

--
Nom=de=Plume


Bushes tax cut was across the board. The tax cuts he put in place, made
it that 40% of the people do not pay income tax.

Right. If you believe that, there's not much I can help you with...

Bill's smarter than Warren Buffet. That's why they recently tapped
Bill to run Berkshire Hathaway.

When the tax cuts were being debated, Warren said that Bush should
give $1,000 to a million taxpayers who earn less than (I think it was
$100K). He made the point that they'd immediately turn around and put
the money back in circulation purchasing hard goods like washers,
fridges, cars. Things they needed.

Saying further that if the money is given to the top 2%, they'd just
throw it in the bank or someplace that'd have no effect on the
economy.

That's a smart man. Bush and his advisors didn't care.

Neither did Bill.

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:06:59 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:56nkf5pmpbl5lsl8gifs93r865glgn8es4 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:15:52 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
Some for sure... can't be helped really. Not nearly as much as Bush
wasted
in his administration.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Youe opinion. But all Obama's spending has not turned around the
recession.
Percentage of unemployment still rising, and that excludes those that
have
given up on getting a job. The stock market is mostly a bubble driven
by
all the money given to "too big to fail" financial houses. Which have
now
decided to give billions of bonus money, even though they have not
really
made any money, just a huge infusion of taxpayers $$$$$$$$. We have
the
next wave of mortages going to fail. The not subprime ones. The
bailout
was to supposed to buy toxic mortgages. None bought, so what did the
banks
do with the money. Gold broke $1100. Most of the rise is the falling
dollar. What happens when China wants to cash in all that debt we owe
them.

We're fucked. Aren't you glad knowing that the 1% got there's before
China cashed in their chips?

Jealous of those who made more than you?

I have plenty of family and friends who have the burden of too much
money. It's not a good influence.

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:31:44 -0500, Tom Francis - SWSports
removeemail at (no spam) rejectswsportsdot.org> wrote:

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 06:15:00 -0600, thunder <thunderTAKEOUT at (no spam) gti.net
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:15:52 -0800, Bill McKee wrote:
What happens when
China wants to cash in all that debt we owe them.

Tell them to pound sand. Of course that would be the end of foreign
financing our deficits, but that would be a good thing. We'd finally
have to get our fiscal house in order.

So you're ok with being required to purchase a $15,000 policy or go to
jail? Be fined? Have 2.5% of your income confiscated for
"insurance"? 111 new departments to manage the paperwork? $200
million dollars to pay off vetinarian medical school loans? Medical
effectiveness (read "death panels") policy?

You're ok with all that, but you think we should get our fiscal house
in order?

How about we just leave things alone instead of spending $1.2 trillion
dollars over the next eight years instead.

Holy shit. What a wonder it'd have been if you'd have said that while
we were shipping tanks to Iraq. I'd consider you human.

You dumb shit. The statement was 40% do not pay income tax. Which is false
from my research. Is actually 43.4%.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/15/politics/otherpeoplesmoney/main4945874.shtml

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:44:51 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


You dumb shit. The statement was 40% do not pay income tax. Which is false
from my research. Is actually 43.4%.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/15/politics/otherpeoplesmoney/main4945874.shtml


Why is that?
Last I noticed you had to be damned low in income to avoid taxes.

--Vic

On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:44:51 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


You dumb shit. The statement was 40% do not pay income tax. Which is false
from my research. Is actually 43.4%.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/15/politics/otherpeoplesmoney/main4945874.shtml


Why is that?
Last I noticed you had to be damned low in income to avoid taxes.

--Vic

"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:9slmf55dr34l4vqj8ltullg9ougb90jm9e at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:06:59 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"jps" <trash at (no spam) thedump.com> wrote in message
news:56nkf5pmpbl5lsl8gifs93r865glgn8es4 at (no spam) 4ax.com...
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:15:52 -0800, "Bill McKee"
bmckeespamnot at (no spam) ix.netcom.com> wrote:


"nom=de=plume" <nom=de at (no spam) plume.invalid> wrote in message
Some for sure... can't be helped really. Not nearly as much as Bush
wasted
in his administration.

--
Nom=de=Plume


Youe opinion. But all Obama's spending has not turned around the
recession.
Percentage of unemployment still rising, and that excludes those that
have
given up on getting a job. The stock market is mostly a bubble driven
by
all the money given to "too big to fail" financial houses. Which have
now
decided to give billions of bonus money, even though they have not
really
made any money, just a huge infusion of taxpayers $$$$$$$$. We have
the
next wave of mortages going to fail. The not subprime ones. The
bailout
was to supposed to buy toxic mortgages. None bought, so what did the
banks
do with the money. Gold broke $1100. Most of the rise is the falling
dollar. What happens when China wants to cash in all that debt we owe
them.

We're fucked. Aren't you glad knowing that the 1% got there's before
China cashed in their chips?

Jealous of those who made more than you?

I have plenty of family and friends who have the burden of too much
money. It's not a good influence.

Then they had a poor upbringing. You also?