DO NOT constitute a particularly "noble" genre unless Marquis de Sade....

As you suggest, there is little or no chance that Balthus was related
in any way to the noble Klossowskis. It's a bit like the British ex-
Home Secretary Michael Howard, who is Jewish, calling himself 'Michael
Howard de Norfolk'. Just because Balthus' surname was Klossowski
doesn't mean he has any right to the Szlachta arms of Rola.

Richard Lichten


Thank you. I think, you will agree with me that following images,

As you suggest, there is little or no chance that Balthus was related
in any way to the noble Klossowskis. It's a bit like the British ex-
Home Secretary Michael Howard, who is Jewish, calling himself 'Michael
Howard de Norfolk'. Just because Balthus' surname was Klossowski
doesn't mean he has any right to the Szlachta arms of Rola.

Richard Lichten


Thank you. I think, you will agree with me that following images,

I have expressed some doubt here some time ago about the genetic
provenance, allegedly aristocratic
of polish origin, of famous painter of that name. The chap has been
celebrated by such giants of french
culture as poet Rilke and writer and gaullist politician, Andre Malroix.
He has had "tout Paris" at his feet in the
60-ties of last Century. I think due to pedophile nature of his work
which I was able to see recently for the first
time in my life, in Chicago Museum of Art.
The thing is, Balthus was quite proud of his Coat of Arms which he
displayed on kimonos  and everywhere.
I have checked with my polish Almanach:
the CoA Rola does exist and is ascribed to polish  noble family
Klossowski, nobilitated in 1560.
And here the mystery deepens. Although the polish nobility has saved the
jewish race from extinction no way, any
representative of them would be admitted to the ranks of Szlachta, in
those times at least. For make no mistake: Balthus was
a proper Ashenazim Jew, witness the death of his son Fumio, aged 2, from
typical and only jewish hereditary disease
named after Tay-Sachs.  As the Klossowski family originated in East
Prussia, the question remains: at which stage
the genetic continuity has been broken here.

CoA  Rola is simple but beautiful: in the red shield a white rose bud,
something akin to Yorkshire rose. Surrounded by
3 sickles placed like the aircraft propeller,  implements to shear the  
crops in the field. The word Rola means Arable Land
in polish language so quite aproppiate.

fatso

Prince Czartoryski by virtue of History does have a first claim to the Throne of Poland.

Prince Czartoryski does appear to be descended from the french Duc de Lauson

Are you then saying that this man is faking his connection? The
eastern Jews did a great deal of migrating, the Ashenazi being of
German origin if I'm not mistaken, and it is possible that that the
race slipped into the lineage. Of course it is also possible that
this man has just assumed these arms: I've seen them, and they are
quite striking.

What thesis are you offering?

fatso wrote:


Prince Czartoryski by virtue of History does have a first claim to the Throne of Poland.

No he hasn't. There has never been a Czartoryski King of Poland, and
there is no reason why there should ever be one.


Prince Czartoryski does appear to be descended from the french Duc de Lauson

Evidence please; anyway I think you mean the Duc de Lauzun...

RL

fatso wrote:


Prince Czartoryski by virtue of History does have a first claim to the Throne of Poland.

No he hasn't. There has never been a Czartoryski King of Poland, and
there is no reason why there should ever be one.


Prince Czartoryski does appear to be descended from the french Duc de Lauson

Evidence please; anyway I think you mean the Duc de Lauzun...

RL

Greg wrote:

Are you then saying that this man is faking his connection?  The
eastern Jews did a great deal of migrating, the Ashenazi being of
German origin if I'm not mistaken, and it is possible that that the
race slipped into the lineage.  Of course it is also possible that
this man has just assumed these arms: I've seen them, and they are
quite striking.

What thesis are you offering?

 From my research on-line the painter appearead to be genuinely
surprised, when confronted
with facts by interviewing person. My thesis therefore is a charitable
one: he is not a fake. He
does carry the noble lineage of Klossowski herbu Rola family. The
genetic lineage has been broken
by some enterprising Jew in the past, possibly many generation ago and
the said Ashkenazi,
i.e.Khazar, has improved the degenerate aristocratic stock by exchanging
a packet of sperm
with the lady of that name. Khazars are the most talented peoples on
Earth, vide a number
of Nobel Prizes awarded to them in the past.

Genetics and  genealogy are two separate things.

Just an example, a most recent one: Prince Czartoryski from Canada has
agreed bravely to undergo
genetic testing. A brave decision as his predecessor on maternal side
200 yrs ago, Izabella nee Fleming
Czartoryski, used to practice a free love. Ugly rumours abounded that
the Noble Prince might be a descendant
of one Repnin, ambassador of Catherine the Great to Warsaw. If it were
to be confirmed the facts would
stand the Prince in the good stead, should he ever wish to prostitute
himself to the Russians. Repnin was a true
Rurikid, a descendant of  Rurik, founder of Russia. But the problem
arises: Prince Czartoryski by virtue of History
does have a first claim to the Throne of Poland. After all his
forefather was uncrowned King while in exile in Paris
150 yrs ago. Poles would never accept a Russian on the Throne, after all
they have rebelled against so many in the past.
And now the result: Prince Czartoryski does appear to be descended from
the french  Duc de Lauson(and many other names,
a marshal prince of France). The right choice for the bedchamber of  
amorous Isabella just over 200 yrs ago. The donor of
a sperm packet, guillotined later in Paris during a French Revolution,
does enhance the standing of the noble modern Prince
Czartoryski in the eyes of the Poles. The sooner he grabs that Throne
the better as I cannot stand the paranoid dwarf
masquerading as president of that country today.

fatso

The question I have then, is, since the man appears to be a legitimate
member of the family, why would his sprorting these arms cause you
concern?

From my research on-line the painter appearead to be genuinely surprised, when confronted
with facts by interviewing person. My thesis therefore is a charitable one: he is not a fake. He
does carry the noble lineage of Klossowski herbu Rola family. The genetic lineage has been broken
by some enterprising Jew in the past, possibly many generation ago and the said Ashkenazi,
i.e.Khazar, has improved the degenerate aristocratic stock by exchanging a packet of sperm
with the lady of that name. Khazars are the most talented peoples on Earth, vide a number
of Nobel Prizes awarded to them in the past.

Greg wrote:

The question I have then, is, since the man appears to be a legitimate
member of the family, why would his sprorting these arms cause you
concern?

I thought, initially, that our Balthus was a total fake. Now, having
read about him, I just think him
to be a genuine Klossowski de Rola, with interesting genetical makeup-
hence his many talents.

fatso

Genetic studies have shown that the Khazar component in the ancestry of Ashkenazi Jews is very
minor. Bringing it back on topic, it would have been interesting, heraldically speaking, if the
Khaganate of Khazaria had survived a few more centuries, since heraldry there would have developed
in a Jewish milieu, rather than a Christian one.