I'm in complete agreement, Richard.  The other problem I have with her
singing is that there is never, ever, any feeling of repose or
relaxation - the tone always seems tense and a little pressured.

Bill

On Oct 30, 8:29 am, wkasimer <wkasi... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:e:



I'm in complete agreement, Richard.  The other problem I have with her
singing is that there is never, ever, any feeling of repose or
relaxation - the tone always seems tense and a little pressured.

Bill

Yes, Bill, "I calls 'em like I sees 'em," as you always claim.
Trouble is, you don't see all that well.  How could any singer
possibly convey (or want to convey) a feeling of repose or relaxation
in an up-tempo, lightning-fast piece such as "agitata da due venti"!
As for "never, ever," why not actually consider arie antiche or
operatic arias where "repose" is actually called for.  Here is
"Amarilli" and Handel's "Lascia ch'io pianga."  And, by all means, do
put on your classes and hearing aid.

Frank A.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_dRbAYi_ME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sG0Hqi8BQYM

By the way, I should also commend Bartoli's expressiveness with the
Italian language.  I don't know if you actually speak Italian, but
with Bartoli it is as pure as it gets.

Yes, Bill, "I calls 'em like I sees 'em," as you always claim.
Trouble is, you don't see all that well.  How could any singer
possibly convey (or want to convey) a feeling of repose or relaxation
in an up-tempo, lightning-fast piece such as "agitata da due venti"!
As for "never, ever," why not actually consider arie antiche or
operatic arias where "repose" is actually called for.  

On Oct 30, 11:48 am, stefano <adle... at (no spam) msn.com> wrote:

Yes, Bill, "I calls 'em like I sees 'em," as you always claim.
Trouble is, you don't see all that well.  How could any singer
possibly convey (or want to convey) a feeling of repose or relaxation
in an up-tempo, lightning-fast piece such as "agitata da due venti"!
As for "never, ever," why not actually consider arie antiche or
operatic arias where "repose" is actually called for.  

What makes you think that I haven't been listening to Bartoli for the
past, oh, fifteen years?  I've heard virtually every recording that
she's made, as well as any number of broadcasts.  I'm very familiar
with her voice, her style, and her repertoire.

I suggest that when you enter RMO, you leave what happens at Ed's
Opera Group at the door.

Bill

On Oct 30, 11:48 am, stefano <adle... at (no spam) msn.com> wrote:

Yes, Bill, "I calls 'em like I sees 'em," as you always claim.
Trouble is, you don't see all that well.  How could any singer
possibly convey (or want to convey) a feeling of repose or relaxation
in an up-tempo, lightning-fast piece such as "agitata da due venti"!
As for "never, ever," why not actually consider arie antiche or
operatic arias where "repose" is actually called for.  

What makes you think that I haven't been listening to Bartoli for the
past, oh, fifteen years?  I've heard virtually every recording that
she's made, as well as any number of broadcasts.  I'm very familiar
with her voice, her style, and her repertoire.

I suggest that when you enter RMO, you leave what happens at Ed's
Opera Group at the door.

Bill

I'm not interested in settling any scores,

but Bill you repeatedly used that line about calling them as you see them..

 I put up a clip of
Bartoli singing "Agitata da due venti," and you complain there is
"never, ever" a feeling of repose in her singing, as if in that
particular selection ("agitate" actually means something, you know)
repose is in any way called for.  

Then I post two selections where a
sense of repose is all too evident, undercutting your "never, ever"
claim,

and you respond, not at all to the point in dispute, but by
saying you are indeed familiar with her voice, her style and her
repertoire.  What does that have to do with the price of fish$

And I suggest that nothing has happened at Ed's place except for your
recent four or five very sarcastic and much less than nice posts!

"...a musician of superb taste & intelligence". What does that mean, exactly?

Not one from anybody else.

So if you don't want my place to be mentioned
here, please don't mention it.

Thank you. Frank may have alluded to
your posts there, but at least he didn't mention it.

On Oct 30, 1:21 pm, stefano <adle... at (no spam) msn.com> wrote:

I'm not interested in settling any scores,

Yeah.  Right...

but Bill you repeatedly used that line about calling them as you see them.

I wasn't aware that the word "repeatedly" includes "once".

 I put up a clip of
Bartoli singing "Agitata da due venti," and you complain there is
"never, ever" a feeling of repose in her singing, as if in that
particular selection ("agitate" actually means something, you know)
repose is in any way called for.  

No, actually, I didn't bother to listen to that particular selection,
and was responding to, and agreeing with, Richard's more general
comments about Bartoli's singing.

Then I post two selections where a
sense of repose is all too evident, undercutting your "never, ever"
claim,

Well, not really, but don't let my opinion get in the way of a good
whine.  I find her soft singing undersupported, breathy, and mannered;
everything feels as though it's being manufactured, rather than sung.
You obviously feel differently - sei gesunt!

and you respond, not at all to the point in dispute, but by
saying you are indeed familiar with her voice, her style and her
repertoire.  What does that have to do with the price of fish$

Her singing hasn't changed in the slightest bit in the last fifteen
years - for better or worse, she sounds no different today than she
ever has.

BTW, I picked up her new CD "Sacrificium", and it reminded me of some
of her other flaws.  Even on those occasions when she's not aspirating
her fioratura, it has a clipped, machine-gun quality that I find very,
very off-putting, and it always sounds as though she's singing it "off
the breath"; the tone quality disappears.  And it seems as though she
can't sing any melisma without changing the vowel five or six times.
And even in slower music, her legato is deficient.

Like Richard, I admire her inquisitive spirit, her unearthing of music
that no one else is likely to touch, and she only sings with the best
HIP orchestras (on the new CD, Il Giardino Armonico is fantastic).  I
just wish that it were someone else doing the singing.

Bill

On Oct 30, 11:34 am, wkasimer <wkasi... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:





On Oct 30, 1:21 pm, stefano <adle... at (no spam) msn.com> wrote:

I'm not interested in settling any scores,

Yeah.  Right...

but Bill you repeatedly used that line about calling them as you see them.

I wasn't aware that the word "repeatedly" includes "once".

 I put up a clip of
Bartoli singing "Agitata da due venti," and you complain there is
"never, ever" a feeling of repose in her singing, as if in that
particular selection ("agitate" actually means something, you know)
repose is in any way called for.  

No, actually, I didn't bother to listen to that particular selection,
and was responding to, and agreeing with, Richard's more general
comments about Bartoli's singing.

Then I post two selections where a
sense of repose is all too evident, undercutting your "never, ever"
claim,

Well, not really, but don't let my opinion get in the way of a good
whine.  I find her soft singing undersupported, breathy, and mannered;
everything feels as though it's being manufactured, rather than sung.
You obviously feel differently - sei gesunt!

and you respond, not at all to the point in dispute, but by
saying you are indeed familiar with her voice, her style and her
repertoire.  What does that have to do with the price of fish$

Her singing hasn't changed in the slightest bit in the last fifteen
years - for better or worse, she sounds no different today than she
ever has.

BTW, I picked up her new CD "Sacrificium", and it reminded me of some
of her other flaws.  Even on those occasions when she's not aspirating
her fioratura, it has a clipped, machine-gun quality that I find very,
very off-putting, and it always sounds as though she's singing it "off
the breath"; the tone quality disappears.  And it seems as though she
can't sing any melisma without changing the vowel five or six times.
And even in slower music, her legato is deficient.

Like Richard, I admire her inquisitive spirit, her unearthing of music
that no one else is likely to touch, and she only sings with the best
HIP orchestras (on the new CD, Il Giardino Armonico is fantastic).  I
just wish that it were someone else doing the singing.

Bill

Your wish is my command:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3NOrxOHLgM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNA0J2bJg3k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aczh4RtuAuk

dav- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On Oct 30, 11:34 am, wkasimer <wkasi... at (no spam) comcast.net> wrote:



On Oct 30, 1:21 pm, stefano <adle... at (no spam) msn.com> wrote:

I'm not interested in settling any scores,

Yeah. Right...

but Bill you repeatedly used that line about calling them as you see them.

I wasn't aware that the word "repeatedly" includes "once".

I put up a clip of
Bartoli singing "Agitata da due venti," and you complain there is
"never, ever" a feeling of repose in her singing, as if in that
particular selection ("agitate" actually means something, you know)
repose is in any way called for.

No, actually, I didn't bother to listen to that particular selection,
and was responding to, and agreeing with, Richard's more general
comments about Bartoli's singing.

Then I post two selections where a
sense of repose is all too evident, undercutting your "never, ever"
claim,

Well, not really, but don't let my opinion get in the way of a good
whine. I find her soft singing undersupported, breathy, and mannered;
everything feels as though it's being manufactured, rather than sung.
You obviously feel differently - sei gesunt!

and you respond, not at all to the point in dispute, but by
saying you are indeed familiar with her voice, her style and her
repertoire. What does that have to do with the price of fish$

Her singing hasn't changed in the slightest bit in the last fifteen
years - for better or worse, she sounds no different today than she
ever has.

BTW, I picked up her new CD "Sacrificium", and it reminded me of some
of her other flaws. Even on those occasions when she's not aspirating
her fioratura, it has a clipped, machine-gun quality that I find very,
very off-putting, and it always sounds as though she's singing it "off
the breath"; the tone quality disappears. And it seems as though she
can't sing any melisma without changing the vowel five or six times.
And even in slower music, her legato is deficient.

Like Richard, I admire her inquisitive spirit, her unearthing of music
that no one else is likely to touch, and she only sings with the best
HIP orchestras (on the new CD, Il Giardino Armonico is fantastic). I
just wish that it were someone else doing the singing.

Bill

Your wish is my command:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3NOrxOHLgM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNA0J2bJg3k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aczh4RtuAuk

dav

On Oct 30, 1:17 pm, "premiereop... at (no spam) aol.com" <edop... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

And I suggest that nothing has happened at Ed's place except for your
recent four or five very sarcastic and much less than nice posts!

Just so no one has to wonder what I wrote, here they are:

"Michael, if you're interested in a site where Domingo gets a fair
shake, this isn't it.  There are certain forums where certain
individuals take every opportunity to criticize him in a manner that
can only be described as "pathologic" or "obsessive" - and this is
certainly one of them."

===========
"...a musician of superb taste & intelligence".  What does that mean, exactly?

If you have to ask the question, the answer won't matter to you.

===========
Not one from anybody else.

I think that you'd better go back and read the thread again, Ed.

So if you don't want my place to be mentioned
here, please don't mention it.

Actually, I don't really give a shit whether your forum is mentioned
or not.

Thank you. Frank may have alluded to
your posts there, but at least he didn't mention it.

A distinction without a difference, Ed.

Since you've gone out of your way to criticize my behavior in a thread
to which you have otherwise contributed bupkis, perhaps you'd like to
express an opinion about Bartoli?

Bill

And the next time you quote my
group here, why don't you resign from it.

Or- you can be unsubcribed.

The post you quote is the only of two posts you have deigned to make
there,

Your absence is quite welcome,

On Oct 30, 3:22 pm, "premiereop... at (no spam) aol.com" <edop... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

And the next time you quote my
group here, why don't you resign from it.

Consider it done.

Or- you can be unsubcribed.

I wasn't aware that your group was a fascist state.  Thank you for
pointing it out to me.

The post you quote is the only of two posts you have deigned to make
there,

Your memory is very, very short, Ed.

Your absence is quite welcome,

Good.  Enjoy it.

Bill

Bill, for the record, our dispute over Kim unfolded here, in RMO, not
in Ed's opera group.  You can easily verify this.

Thus, the offense
Ed took to your post is based on what actually took place, and not
your faulty recollection.  

I think you minimally owe Ed the courtesy of
recognizing the mistake that seems to have set him off.  

For the
record, I never felt any animosity toward you, despite our
disagreements.