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| weheardthenews... |
 Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:41 am |
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On Oct 28, 6:16�am, Will in New Haven
<bill.re... at (no spam) taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
Quote: On Oct 28, 2:54�am, "Kurgan Gringioni." <kgringi... at (no spam) hotmail.com
wrote:
On Oct 27, 6:28�pm, Will in New Haven
bill.re... at (no spam) taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
I will probably live to see Pete dead and in the Hall.
Why would they let Pete in and not Shoeless Joe Jackson?
Joe Jackson's lifetime BA: .356
Not involved in the Black Sox Scandal, but he was on the team.
He was certainly involved. He took the money and he didn't let anyone
know about the plot. He also managed to do some things, like throw to
the wrong base and let a run score, ...
Big deal. The Dodgers and Padres do that all the time.
that would not impact his
Quote: statistics but would hurt the team's chances. That throw to the wrong
base was in the first game and was the first thing that alerted some
observers that the Sox might be in the tank.
--
Will in New Haven
Could be the reason contact lenses evolved so much. |
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| Will in New Haven... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:22 pm |
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On Oct 28, 7:58 pm, Gerry Myerson <ge... at (no spam) maths.mq.edi.ai.i2u4email>
wrote:
Quote: In article
142504fa-317d-45e3-b763-937c4b094... at (no spam) j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Will in New Haven <bill.re... at (no spam) taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
Al Rosen was a better player [than Joe Jackson] but career length is keeping
HIM out.
I'd really like to see your argument supporting this.
Jackson had a career OPS+ of 170, which is in the top 10 all-time,
just shy of Pujols and Mantle at 172, ahead of Cobb and Foxx.
Rosen is at 137, which puts him in the top 90, alongside Jack and
Will Clark and Pedro Guerrero. Sure, Rosen gets some points for
playing a more difficult position than Jackson played, and, by all
accounts, playing it well, but that's a lot of hitting to make up.
So far as I can see, the only way Rosen was a better player than
Jackson was that Rosen didn't take any money from gamblers.
Jackson was playing in a much weaker league. A Run was worth more in
his day, so that mitigates against this but I'm pretty sure that very
few of the players in the AL of 1919 could, if brought forward in
time, make a ML roster in 1950. Still, the assumption for HoF voting
is that no such steep change in the game exists. So I will retract my
claim that Rosen was the better player.
Still, Jackson's _justified_ ouster from the game kept him from having
what the voters generally consider a full ML career. I see no
injustice in that, plus the voters' being disgusted by his selling a
WS, keeping him out.
I think the voters not being able to decide on Rose _is_ an injustice.
However, he made some of the decisions that put him in this position.
And the people who worship him are suffering because he isn't in. It
may not make me a nice person but I do enjoy that.
--
Will in New Haven |
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| Gerry Myerson... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:58 pm |
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In article
<142504fa-317d-45e3-b763-937c4b09400f at (no spam) j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com>,
Will in New Haven <bill.reich at (no spam) taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
Quote: Al Rosen was a better player [than Joe Jackson] but career length is keeping
HIM out.
I'd really like to see your argument supporting this.
Jackson had a career OPS+ of 170, which is in the top 10 all-time,
just shy of Pujols and Mantle at 172, ahead of Cobb and Foxx.
Rosen is at 137, which puts him in the top 90, alongside Jack and
Will Clark and Pedro Guerrero. Sure, Rosen gets some points for
playing a more difficult position than Jackson played, and, by all
accounts, playing it well, but that's a lot of hitting to make up.
So far as I can see, the only way Rosen was a better player than
Jackson was that Rosen didn't take any money from gamblers.
--
Gerry Myerson (gerry at (no spam) maths.mq.edi.ai) (i -> u for email) |
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| Gerry... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:06 pm |
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On Oct 29, 12:22 pm, Will in New Haven
<bill.re... at (no spam) taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
Quote: Still, Jackson's _justified_ ouster from the game kept him from having
what the voters generally consider a full ML career. I see no
injustice in that, plus the voters' being disgusted by his selling a
WS, keeping him out.
I think if Jackson's career had ended in 1920 in some non-scandalous
way, he'd be in the Hall today. His career would be considered short,
but comparable in length (and at least the equal in quality) to those
of
Kiner, Campanella, Jackie Robinson, Ross Youngs, Freddy Lindstrom,
and perhaps a few others who are now in the Hall. In my mind, there's
no doubt that it's the scandal that has kept him (and should continue
to keep him) out.
--
Gerry Myerson (gerry at (no spam) maths.mq.edi.ai) (i -> u for email) |
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