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| dickr2... |
 Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:14 am |
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Guest
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I had a friend who, along with his pregnant wife, had
operated a small store. He was in the back room when a
bad guy entered the store, held a knife to the wife's
throat, and demanded money from the cash register.
My friend grabbed a Ruger .44 carbine and blew the bad guy
away. Yes it was justifiable, but my friend had nightmares
for years because he had killed someone. Was the deceased
a "bad guy" or a desperate family man? He never knew.
Dick
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| DougC... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:35 pm |
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dickr2 wrote:
# I had a friend who, along with his pregnant wife, had
# operated a small store. He was in the back room when a
# bad guy entered the store, held a knife to the wife's
# throat, and demanded money from the cash register.
# My friend grabbed a Ruger .44 carbine and blew the bad guy
# away. Yes it was justifiable, but my friend had nightmares
# for years because he had killed someone. Was the deceased
# a "bad guy" or a desperate family man? He never knew.
Did you notice that his eyes changed to "the thousand yard stare?"
That is common among policemen and soldiers who kill .
Doug Chandler
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| Bob Roberts... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:35 pm |
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On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:14:19 +0000 (UTC), dickr2 <dickr2 at (no spam) frontier.com>
wrote:
#I had a friend who, along with his pregnant wife, had
#operated a small store. He was in the back room when a
#bad guy entered the store, held a knife to the wife's
#throat, and demanded money from the cash register.
#My friend grabbed a Ruger .44 carbine and blew the bad guy
#away. Yes it was justifiable, but my friend had nightmares
#for years because he had killed someone. Was the deceased
#a "bad guy" or a desperate family man? He never knew.
For your question to be valid one must allow desperation to be a valid
reason to threaten the life of another. And if that is something that
you recognize you should also apply that rule for desperation to the
husband of the woman that was in mortal danger. If you carry that far
it is obvious that the husband was not only right in shooting the
assailant but was required to defend his wife as he did. His immediate
sense of desperation far out weighs the assailant's desperation over
his inability to care for his own family.
In short: the husband did the world a favor by removing a scumbag from
the world, he should feel proud of being able to take such action and
content in the fact that he carried it out perfectly.
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| Tim Douglass... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:35 pm |
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Guest
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That may all be true, but he also needs to recognize that he is
suffering from PTSD as a result and seek treatment. Just because a
killing is justified doesn't mean it isn't traumatic - in fact, if it
isn't traumatic that is superficial evidence that the person doing the
killing is a sociopath and probably has some significant issues.
Killing another human being should *never* be taken lightly. Those who
talk about "exterminating vermin" and the like are trading a part of
their humanity for a bit of mental armor that they hope will help them
avoid the stress of taking another life.
OK, off soapbox.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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| Jim Yanik... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:36 pm |
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dickr2 <dickr2 at (no spam) frontier.com> wrote in news:hbkulr$mr0$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net:
# I had a friend who, along with his pregnant wife, had
# operated a small store. He was in the back room when a
# bad guy entered the store, held a knife to the wife's
# throat, and demanded money from the cash register.
# My friend grabbed a Ruger .44 carbine and blew the bad guy
# away. Yes it was justifiable, but my friend had nightmares
# for years because he had killed someone. Was the deceased
# a "bad guy" or a desperate family man? He never knew.
#
# Dick
It doesn't matter if he was "a desperate family man",he threatened deadly
violence to another person.
That makes him a "bad guy".
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
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| Bob Roberts... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:11 pm |
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Guest
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On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:14:19 +0000 (UTC), dickr2 <dickr2 at (no spam) frontier.com>
wrote:
Quote: I had a friend who, along with his pregnant wife, had
operated a small store. He was in the back room when a
bad guy entered the store, held a knife to the wife's
throat, and demanded money from the cash register.
My friend grabbed a Ruger .44 carbine and blew the bad guy
away. Yes it was justifiable, but my friend had nightmares
for years because he had killed someone. Was the deceased
a "bad guy" or a desperate family man? He never knew.
For your question to be valid one must allow desperation to be a valid
reason to threaten the life of another. And if that is something that
you recognize you should also apply that rule for desperation to the
husband of the woman that was in mortal danger. If you carry that far
it is obvious that the husband was not only right in shooting the
assailant but was required to defend his wife as he did. His immediate
sense of desperation far out weighs the assailant's desperation over
his inability to care for his own family.
In short: the husband did the world a favor by removing a scumbag from
the world, he should feel proud of being able to take such action and
content in the fact that he carried it out perfectly. |
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| Mark... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:17 pm |
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In article <hbkulr$mr0$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net>, dickr2 at (no spam) frontier.com says...
Quote: I had a friend who, along with his pregnant wife, had
operated a small store. He was in the back room when a
bad guy entered the store, held a knife to the wife's
throat, and demanded money from the cash register.
My friend grabbed a Ruger .44 carbine and blew the bad guy
away. Yes it was justifiable, but my friend had nightmares
for years because he had killed someone. Was the deceased
a "bad guy" or a desperate family man? He never knew.
If you don't believe you can live with killing then it's best to avoid
it. Many people don't have a clue because they've never been in the
service, and not everyone in the service has that experience.
Some people know how they will respond, but to have nightmares means
that he may falter the next time, which could be more danger for himself
or his wife - he should seek real, not liberal, counseling so that he
can put it fully behind himself.
You last question is misleading, it doesn't matter if he was a "Family"
man, he was a violent offender that chose to risk his own life for
money, proving that he didn't believe his own life was worth what he was
trying to take.
The good news is that you friend put an end to what could have been a
long run of violence that could have ended with innocent people being
killed.
--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam999free at (no spam) rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address) |
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| Tom S.... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:33 pm |
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Guest
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dickr2 wrote:
# I had a friend who, along with his pregnant wife, had
# operated a small store. He was in the back room when a
# bad guy entered the store, held a knife to the wife's
# throat, and demanded money from the cash register.
# My friend grabbed a Ruger .44 carbine and blew the bad guy
# away. Yes it was justifiable, but my friend had nightmares
# for years because he had killed someone. Was the deceased
# a "bad guy" or a desperate family man? He never knew.
Desperate family men don't rob store and threaten people. Much more
typically, they take the dirty, grungy jobs that no one else will.
Outside of Hollywood, you'd be hard pressed to find even a single story,
across decades of reports, of someone who committed armed robbery to
support their family.
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| Tom S.... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:33 pm |
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Tim Douglass wrote:
# That may all be true, but he also needs to recognize that he is
# suffering from PTSD as a result and seek treatment. Just because a
# killing is justified doesn't mean it isn't traumatic - in fact, if it
# isn't traumatic that is superficial evidence that the person doing the
# killing is a sociopath and probably has some significant issues.
#
# Killing another human being should *never* be taken lightly. Those who
# talk about "exterminating vermin" and the like are trading a part of
# their humanity for a bit of mental armor that they hope will help them
# avoid the stress of taking another life.
#
# OK, off soapbox.
#
Well, you've already made your decision and your agenda so why bother
these people here.
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| Mark... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:33 pm |
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Guest
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In article <hbkulr$mr0$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net>, dickr2 at (no spam) frontier.com says...
# I had a friend who, along with his pregnant wife, had
# operated a small store. He was in the back room when a
# bad guy entered the store, held a knife to the wife's
# throat, and demanded money from the cash register.
# My friend grabbed a Ruger .44 carbine and blew the bad guy
# away. Yes it was justifiable, but my friend had nightmares
# for years because he had killed someone. Was the deceased
# a "bad guy" or a desperate family man? He never knew.
#
If you don't believe you can live with killing then it's best to avoid
it. Many people don't have a clue because they've never been in the
service, and not everyone in the service has that experience.
Some people know how they will respond, but to have nightmares means
that he may falter the next time, which could be more danger for himself
or his wife - he should seek real, not liberal, counseling so that he
can put it fully behind himself.
You last question is misleading, it doesn't matter if he was a "Family"
man, he was a violent offender that chose to risk his own life for
money, proving that he didn't believe his own life was worth what he was
trying to take.
The good news is that you friend put an end to what could have been a
long run of violence that could have ended with innocent people being
killed.
--
You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little
voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.
Trust yourself.
spam999free at (no spam) rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
--------------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.net
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| Herbert Cannon... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:29 am |
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Guest
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Your friend did what he had to do. How he would he have feel if the
assailant cut his wife's throat.
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| Argent... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:49 pm |
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On Oct 21, 9:29 am, "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno... at (no spam) cox.net> wrote:
It does not matter what the criminals motivation was, he forfeited our
sympathies when he decided to rob someone else, particularly using the
threat of deadly force.
Unfortunately your friend's angst is all too common in our urbanized
society. Few urban dwellers hunt, farm, ranch, or fish, so they
almost never see blood or death (except in a hospital). In addition
the media and reinforces the "I killed someone so I must feel
traumatized". So when these urbanites do the necessary thing and kill
someone in self defense, they feel traumatized.
And not feeling bad about a necessary killing in self defense (or
protecting your loved ones) does not mean you have problems. A
sociopath doesn't feel bad about hurting or killing anyone. There is
a significant difference.
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| Gunny_2008... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:49 pm |
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"dickr2" <dickr2 at (no spam) frontier.com> wrote in message
news:hbkulr$mr0$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net...
# I had a friend who, along with his pregnant wife, had
# operated a small store. He was in the back room when a
# bad guy entered the store, held a knife to the wife's
# throat, and demanded money from the cash register.
# My friend grabbed a Ruger .44 carbine and blew the bad guy
# away. Yes it was justifiable, but my friend had nightmares
# for years because he had killed someone. Was the deceased
# a "bad guy" or a desperate family man? He never knew.
#
# Dick
I keep seeing statements about how this was a justifiable use of force.
That is not the point. The point is, and we teach this in our CCW classes,
that it is a very emotionally disturbing act for a NORMAL person to kill
another human being, whether or not he legally deserved it. PTSD is very
common for shooters, be they military or civilian. If you or a close one
has actually killed another person, don't be reluctant to visit a counselor.
There is no shame involved. That is why the military and police provide
these services for their people. As was pointed out by another poster, the
person that is abnormal is the one who can kill and NOT have it affect him
in any way. A counselor can help you work out the emotional stress to the
point that you can live with it and, perhaps more importantly, not let it
prevent you from responding correctly again in the future.
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| Larry Kroger... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:49 pm |
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"dickr2" <dickr2 at (no spam) frontier.com> wrote in message
news:hbkulr$mr0$1 at (no spam) news.albasani.net...
#I had a friend who, along with his pregnant wife, had
# operated a small store. He was in the back room when a
# bad guy entered the store, held a knife to the wife's
# throat, and demanded money from the cash register.
# My friend grabbed a Ruger .44 carbine and blew the bad guy
# away. Yes it was justifiable, but my friend had nightmares
# for years because he had killed someone. Was the deceased
# a "bad guy" or a desperate family man? He never knew.
This is a sort of stock question with stock answers. Is it a serious query,
or more likely just a ploy to generate some activity? Anyway, here's my
comment.
Notice that there's an implicit assumption of elite superiority in these
scenarios. That is, the assailant is regarded as a low-level automaton, who
is presumed to have his reasons and excuses. The person who responds,
however, is not allowed that leeway. He is assumed to be fully responsible
for his actions.
I reject those assumptions. I figure we're all troubled people, each in our
own way straining under our baggage. So the bottom line question is: Do we
shoulder our responsibilities or do we not? If we assert our claim to human
rights, then we're obligated to bear the burden of human responsibilities.
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| Ultraclassic... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:49 pm |
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On Oct 21, 6:29 am, "Herbert Cannon" <hcanno... at (no spam) cox.net> wrote:
Yes. the facts described where the man's wife was in iminent danger is
a classic case for justifiable homicide. Killing under such
circumstances, is not only justifiable, it's required. I would
probably feel bad for a day or two and then I would consider that I
had saved a life from a criminal. It's not even a close call.
Had he pumped another round or two into the miscreant's forehead after
the event was over, well that's another story. The DA wouldn't take
kindly to that.
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