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| maxx4671... |
 Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 2:28 pm |
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Guest
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i was hoping someone could help me with a starting point
i need the time delay in sec. for a three inch ball shell
using Chrysanthemum #6 Takeo Shimizu stars
with bp coated rice hulls for burst
also the recomended lift charge using homemade 2fa alchol/red gum bp
made with grape vine charcoal milled in a 15lb model b tumbler for 24
hours
thanks in advance for ur help
maxx 467
proud to be a PGI member |
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| FlaMtnBkr... |
| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:19 pm |
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Guest
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I am by no means an expert but I would say to start with a 3-3.5
second delay and use about 30 grams of powder. It's hard to say how
much powder without knowing how strong it is. You can always take a
shell and fill it with dog food so that it is the same weight and see
what kind of height you get. You can adjust the timing and the lift to
get a good height on your break. You want it high enough that nothing
burning lands on the ground/ trees but not so high that it looks
smaller than it is.
Good luck!
On Oct 18, 8:28 pm, maxx4671 <maxx... at (no spam) excite.com> wrote:
Quote: i was hoping someone could help me with a starting point
i need the time delay in sec. for a three inch ball shell
using Chrysanthemum #6 Takeo Shimizu stars
with bp coated rice hulls for burst
also the recomended lift charge using homemade 2fa alchol/red gum bp
made with grape vine charcoal milled in a 15lb model b tumbler for 24
hours
thanks in advance for ur help
maxx 467
proud to be a PGI member |
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| hhc314 at (no spam) yahoo.com... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:52 am |
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On Oct 18, 8:19 pm, FlaMtnBkr <flamtn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: I am by no means an expert but I would say to start with a 3-3.5
second delay and use about 30 grams of powder. It's hard to say how
much powder without knowing how strong it is. You can always take a
shell and fill it with dog food so that it is the same weight and see
what kind of height you get. You can adjust the timing and the lift to
get a good height on your break. You want it high enough that nothing
burning lands on the ground/ trees but not so high that it looks
smaller than it is.
Good luck!
On Oct 18, 8:28 pm, maxx4671 <maxx... at (no spam) excite.com> wrote:
i was hoping someone could help me with a starting point
i need the time delay in sec. for a three inch ball shell
using Chrysanthemum #6 Takeo Shimizu stars
with bp coated rice hulls for burst
also the recomended lift charge using homemade 2fa alchol/red gum bp
made with grape vine charcoal milled in a 15lb model b tumbler for 24
hours
thanks in advance for ur help
maxx 467
proud to be a PGI member- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Great post!
Still, for a shell as small as 3", I'd tend to start with a 2 second
timer, then work up from that based on experimental results.
Regarding the dog food shells, I prefer cat food mixed with a little
sand. Of course this depends on the nature of your pet. :-)
Harry C. |
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| FlaMtnBkr... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:47 pm |
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Quote: Great post!
Still, for a shell as small as 3", I'd tend to start with a 2 second
timer, then work up from that based on experimental results.
2 Seconds might be ok but not knowing how strong his BP is, it's hard
to say. I normally like to get stuff too high and then bring it lower
than risk burning fallout. Especially since the grass is starting to
dry out in my neck of the woods. I have ran around stomping out too
many fires as it is  |
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| maxx4671... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:21 pm |
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On Oct 18, 9:19 pm, FlaMtnBkr <flamtn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: I am by no means an expert but I would say to start with a 3-3.5
second delay and use about 30 grams of powder. It's hard to say how
much powder without knowing how strong it is. You can always take a
shell and fill it with dog food so that it is the same weight and see
what kind of height you get. You can adjust the timing and the lift to
get a good height on your break. You want it high enough that nothing
burning lands on the ground/ trees but not so high that it looks
smaller than it is
30 grams seems like a lot I dont wana ruin my hdpe morter as I only
own 1
on this page http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to-make/high-powered-black-powder.asp
I found this
Results
Repeating the tests described above with each of the 12 BP's, I was
able to determine the optimum amount of each powder for lifting a
baseball to 300'.
0.30 oz. Milled pine charcoal, red gum/alcohol
0.35 oz. Milled pine charcoal, pucks sized to 3FA
0.40 oz. Milled pine charcoal, coated on rice hulls
0.45 oz. Milled commercial charcoal, pucks sized to 3FA
0.50 oz. Milled commercial charcoal, red-gum/alcohol or on rice hulls
0.55 oz. Commercial Wano BP, 3FA
0.60 oz. Commercial FFg recommendation from BAFN II chart
0.75 oz. Commercial 2FA recommendation from BAFN II chart
0.75 oz. Commercial Wano BP, 2FA
0.75 oz. Milled commercial charcoal, pucks sized to 2FA
0.75 oz. Milled pine charcoal, pucks sized to 2FA
0.75 oz. Simply-screened, pine charcoal, red-gum/alcohol
0.90 oz. Simply-screened, commercial airfloat charcoal, red-gum/
alcohol
Note: It was almost difficult to use a small enough amount of the pine-
charcoal/red-gum-alcohol powder. A third of an ounce is a mighty small
amount of lift powder.
I'm asuming I'm shooting for 300 feet?
on this page http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pyrotechnics/browse_thread/thread/6b72518d8f8cb059#
I found this
AFN II page 140 Article then this in comments:
Using 4FA
Round Cyl.
3" 20gm 35gm
4" 40 55
5" 60 100
6" 100 165
8" 225
10" 375-450
would I use more or less 2fa then 4 fa?
all this conflicting info makes me crazy
guess I need to do the dogfood tests
with the grapevine charcoal and long mill run I expect my
bp to be pretty high powered
any and all help greatly appriciated
maxx4671
proud to be a PGI member |
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| Skipper... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:52 pm |
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On Oct 20, 2:21 am, maxx4671 <maxx... at (no spam) excite.com> wrote:
Quote: On Oct 18, 9:19 pm, FlaMtnBkr <flamtn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
I am by no means an expert but I would say to start with a 3-3.5
second delay and use about 30 grams of powder. It's hard to say how
much powder without knowing how strong it is. You can always take a
shell and fill it with dog food so that it is the same weight and see
what kind of height you get. You can adjust the timing and the lift to
get a good height on your break. You want it high enough that nothing
burning lands on the ground/ trees but not so high that it looks
smaller than it is
30 grams seems like a lot I dont wana ruin my hdpe morter as I only
own 1
on this page http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to-make/high-powered-black-po...
I found this
Results
Repeating the tests described above with each of the 12 BP's, I was
able to determine the optimum amount of each powder for lifting a
baseball to 300'.
0.30 oz. Milled pine charcoal, red gum/alcohol
0.35 oz. Milled pine charcoal, pucks sized to 3FA
0.40 oz. Milled pine charcoal, coated on rice hulls
0.45 oz. Milled commercial charcoal, pucks sized to 3FA
0.50 oz. Milled commercial charcoal, red-gum/alcohol or on rice hulls
0.55 oz. Commercial Wano BP, 3FA
0.60 oz. Commercial FFg recommendation from BAFN II chart
0.75 oz. Commercial 2FA recommendation from BAFN II chart
0.75 oz. Commercial Wano BP, 2FA
0.75 oz. Milled commercial charcoal, pucks sized to 2FA
0.75 oz. Milled pine charcoal, pucks sized to 2FA
0.75 oz. Simply-screened, pine charcoal, red-gum/alcohol
0.90 oz. Simply-screened, commercial airfloat charcoal, red-gum/
alcohol
Note: It was almost difficult to use a small enough amount of the pine-
charcoal/red-gum-alcohol powder. A third of an ounce is a mighty small
amount of lift powder.
I'm asuming I'm shooting for 300 feet?
on this page http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pyrotechnics/browse_thread/thread/...
I found this
AFN II page 140 Article then this in comments:
Using 4FA
Round Cyl.
3" 20gm 35gm
4" 40 55
5" 60 100
6" 100 165
8" 225
10" 375-450
would I use more or less 2fa then 4 fa?
all this conflicting info makes me crazy
guess I need to do the dogfood tests
with the grapevine charcoal and long mill run I expect my
bp to be pretty high powered
any and all help greatly appriciated
maxx4671
proud to be a PGI member
You would use more 2FA than 4FA, 4FA has been granulated to a smaller
size and will burn faster. I use around 22g's for my 3" ball shells,
that is Red gum granulated BP with good charcoal made in a real mill.
Of course it makes a huge difference how hard you are breaking your
shells and how long the stars burn (which depends on star size AND the
composition you are using). I would suggest going with 24-25g's for
your first shell and see how that feels, or going the dog food route.
IMO it is always better to have them higher and look a little smaller
than catching something on fire, that can ruin your day pretty fast
depending. Good luck, have fun, be safe.
-Alan |
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| FlaMtnBkr... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:00 pm |
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Guest
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The reason I said 30g is because I would rather shoot it high and then
adjust it lower. You can probably use 25g and be fine maybe less.
However, when I made BP out of grape vine in a sponenmill it wasn't
all that hot. Maybe I goofed something up but I have made way hotter.
I have also heard of others not being all that impressed with grape
vine coal but yours may be fine?
Good luck! |
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| hhc314 at (no spam) yahoo.com... |
| Posted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:17 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 19, 11:21 pm, maxx4671 <maxx... at (no spam) excite.com> wrote:
Quote: On Oct 18, 9:19 pm, FlaMtnBkr <flamtn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
I am by no means an expert but I would say to start with a 3-3.5
second delay and use about 30 grams of powder. It's hard to say how
much powder without knowing how strong it is. You can always take a
shell and fill it with dog food so that it is the same weight and see
what kind of height you get. You can adjust the timing and the lift to
get a good height on your break. You want it high enough that nothing
burning lands on the ground/ trees but not so high that it looks
smaller than it is
30 grams seems like a lot I dont wana ruin my hdpe morter as I only
own 1
on this page http://www.skylighter.com/fireworks/how-to-make/high-powered-black-po...
I found this
Results
Repeating the tests described above with each of the 12 BP's, I was
able to determine the optimum amount of each powder for lifting a
baseball to 300'.
0.30 oz. Milled pine charcoal, red gum/alcohol
0.35 oz. Milled pine charcoal, pucks sized to 3FA
0.40 oz. Milled pine charcoal, coated on rice hulls
0.45 oz. Milled commercial charcoal, pucks sized to 3FA
0.50 oz. Milled commercial charcoal, red-gum/alcohol or on rice hulls
0.55 oz. Commercial Wano BP, 3FA
0.60 oz. Commercial FFg recommendation from BAFN II chart
0.75 oz. Commercial 2FA recommendation from BAFN II chart
0.75 oz. Commercial Wano BP, 2FA
0.75 oz. Milled commercial charcoal, pucks sized to 2FA
0.75 oz. Milled pine charcoal, pucks sized to 2FA
0.75 oz. Simply-screened, pine charcoal, red-gum/alcohol
0.90 oz. Simply-screened, commercial airfloat charcoal, red-gum/
alcohol
Note: It was almost difficult to use a small enough amount of the pine-
charcoal/red-gum-alcohol powder. A third of an ounce is a mighty small
amount of lift powder.
I'm asuming I'm shooting for 300 feet?
on this page http://groups.google.com/group/rec.pyrotechnics/browse_thread/thread/...
I found this
AFN II page 140 Article then this in comments:
Using 4FA
Round Cyl.
3" 20gm 35gm
4" 40 55
5" 60 100
6" 100 165
8" 225
10" 375-450
would I use more or less 2fa then 4 fa?
all this conflicting info makes me crazy
guess I need to do the dogfood tests
with the grapevine charcoal and long mill run I expect my
bp to be pretty high powered
any and all help greatly appriciated
maxx4671
proud to be a PGI member
Is there anyone who doesn't yet understand why some PGI members often
frighten the Hell out of me?
For Mike S. There you have it, a PGI member who lacks the ability to
distinguish the difference between the micro and macro worlds. We both
know that the starting point is 1-oz of lift per pound of shell, which
works perfectly fine on small shells fused for a 3-second break.
Detailed performance is generally judged by empirical observation.
Not even seasoned professioional try to cut things much closer than
this, simply because temperature and humidity conditions negate lift
powder variations (unless you are employing really crappy home-made
lift powder).
For amateur's, gimme a break. Purchase quality 1/4 or 3/8 inch timing
fuse, unless you are competent in ramming consistently performing
spoolettes (figure a year or two to perfect the required technique --
it's not something that you can learn in an afternoon!).
Harry C. |
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| mikes2653... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:49 am |
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Harry, I'm not quite sure what your point is.
Long before there was a PGI, there were enthusiasts who were ignorant
of proper firework technique. They had to learn it somewhere, perhaps
from a good teacher, or perhaps by hard experience. The PGI provides
such people with a resource they didn't have before it existed. Is
that a bad thing? The fact that the organization has some members who
are rank beginners is hardly a reason to condemn it, or to judge it by
its lowest common denominator. Everyone has to start somewhere in any
activity.
Just as there are far more people who use firearms than there are
members of the NRA, there are far more people who use fireworks, or
attempt to make them as a hobby, than there are members of the PGI. I
can't but believe that a firework enthusiast who makes the small
effort to join the PGI, reads its Bulletin, maybe goes to a convention
and attends a seminar or two, will be better informed and less likely
to harm himself or others as a consequence of so doing than one who
does not. There will always be people who are interested in these
activities. Providing a source of guidance serves them better than
doing nothing at all.
On Oct 27, 10:17 pm, "hhc... at (no spam) yahoo.com" <hhc... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
Quote:
Is there anyone who doesn't yet understand why some PGI members often
frighten the Hell out of me?
For Mike S. There you have it, a PGI member who lacks the ability to
distinguish the difference between the micro and macro worlds. We both
know that the starting point is 1-oz of lift per pound of shell, which
works perfectly fine on small shells fused for a 3-second break.
Detailed performance is generally judged by empirical observation.
Not even seasoned professioional try to cut things much closer than
this, simply because temperature and humidity conditions negate lift
powder variations (unless you are employing really crappy home-made
lift powder).
For amateur's, gimme a break. Purchase quality 1/4 or 3/8 inch timing
fuse, unless you are competent in ramming consistently performing
spoolettes (figure a year or two to perfect the required technique --
it's not something that you can learn in an afternoon!).
Harry C. |
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