On Oct 17, SPORTfighter <billamaho... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:> thsi fight was
big to me cause i train a kid who is in that division
who may face either or both the guys soon. hes the best fighter
in the world this kid i train. sounds insane, but im telling you
know ufc fighter ive trained with or bjjer, or kickboxer ive trained
or compoeted has anything like the subs, or insane stranegth

or striking power this kid has when it comes to mma.> hed be lost in a gi
but you take a gi off the best grappler his

weight in the world, and you allow striukes and my kid will

sub him. and same with striking,
he will ko the best boxer that weight standing if kicks and takedowsn
and elbows etc are allowed.
time will tell but he'll be regarded as the best in the world P4P some
day.

What if 16 year old Mike Tyson walked into
your dojang, wants to learn cage fighting.
How would you handle him, at a personal level,
and training?

Sam
guess id train him doing what i could to manipulate him onto the

On Oct 17, SPORTfighter <billamaho... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:
thsi fight was big to me cause i train a kid who is in that division
who may face either or both the guys soon. hes the best fighter
in the world this kid i train. sounds insane, but im telling you
know ufc fighter ive trained with or bjjer, or kickboxer ive trained
or compoeted has anything like the subs, or insane stranegth
or striking power this kid has when it comes to mma.
hed be lost in a gi but you take a gi off the best grappler his
weight in the world, and you allow striukes and my kid will
sub him. and same with striking,
he will ko the best boxer that weight standing if kicks and takedowsn
and elbows etc are allowed.
time will tell but he'll be regarded as the best in the world P4P some
day.

What if 16 year old Mike Tyson walked into
your dojang, wants to learn cage fighting.
How would you handle him, at a personal level,
and training?


Sam

youd have left rma long ago if not for me.and you know it.
that you wouldnt then have wasted time as we all have ranting to
strangers is besides the point.

why is it when somone says i missed the point they always did?

You've not explained yourself clearly enough?

im wandering off now, but the greater points the same, MMA is not bjj
plus thai plus wrestling.MMA is its own sport.and must be trained that
way to be your best at.

Yes, if your goal is to be a pro MMA fighter. Assuming that's not the
majority of us, what then?

So do you teach a triangle to noobs through a flurry of punches?

No.But your statement is a good way to make clear what i say.
No i dont teach a tringale vs punches.It must be made easier for them
to get it, so sparring at first has no punches.

Of course. You can call a triangle being taught without punching
teaching MMA, but that's indistinguishable from the same thing being
taught in judo or BJJ.

cage require different techniques or variations, and I'd agree with you
100%.

BUT when someone sez
"coach i cant open that guys guard when we roll?" i say "so? dont.you
cannot punch him as you arent rolling with punches, just stall on him
and take your decision win.It is on HIM to do something to you when
you are in his guard.
I have no insterst in prying open guard with my elbows..and i NEVER do
it.I dont put a quad between the buttcheeks and dont put my hands on
his stomach.and i dont teach it.
a month ago a few of my guys were doing a grappling event i seperated
them from the others and showed them a few things best i rememeber,
explaining to them it bugged me to do it, but they were asking and i
wanted them to compete, didnt care how they did....didnt even ask
after.just think competing is good practive for mma later on.
next time you take a class open your eyes and see MOST of what you are
taught and whats going on in rolling has zero relation to mma.

Not zero,

most grapplers' goal.

now if you like the sport grappling thats fine, i like chess and
target shooting, we all got our things.but go wtahc the ADCC on
youtube and you will nopt see the grappling part of MMA.Youls c a
seperate sport, a fun one sure, and one that can helop you ion self
defense, but it aint what i do.i just tonight chastised a couple of my
guys for staying rolling when the class was halfway through and i said
put gloves on and fight, those two are the guys who are huge into
ground, one takes gi bjj elsewhere.i let them keep rolling but i made
many good natured jokes that they were fags.i have this debate in
class every week,telling my guys (and girls and kids) like it issame
as i did here.

I'm sure you don't do this during the kids classes.

self defense just doesnt seem to make me any money, people who train
for it usually get bored and quit, it doesnt sustain interst like
sport does.the few that stay who never wanna compete sometimes say its
for self defense to me, but they just say it cause saying its fun to
go and fight in the club may make them sound weird.

A lot of people want enough self defence to survive, which is fair
enough. Grappling is a great way to do that, especially if standing
toe-to-toe isn't going to work out well for you. Bear in mind this
apllies to MMA guys too. There is not nor is there likely to be a MMA
fighter with punching abilities like Floyd Maywether.

quick exchange of punches away from the cage, Mayweather by brutal KO.

smart MMA guy would HAVE to take him down before he got KO'd.

don't like to wander from the cage to the str33t, but sometimes it happens.

There's simply no doubting where most MMA techniques have come from, and
that's my point.

also indisputable.

maybe.i had a kid who was 18 years old and like 7-1 in mma ask me what
jiujitsu was.this after getting first in a NAGA and another grappling
deal too.but i take him as an anomaly.

'Anomaly' wasn't quite the word I was thinking of....

"SPORTfighter" <billamaho... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:4114682a-37d9-4225-ad4b-6f8596aceb8e at (no spam) l31g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 20, 8:00 pm, Sam the Bam <samtheb... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

On Oct 17, SPORTfighter <billamaho... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:> thsi fight was
big to me cause i train a kid who is in that division
who may face either or both the guys soon. hes the best fighter
in the world this kid i train. sounds insane, but im telling you
know ufc fighter ive trained with or bjjer, or kickboxer ive trained
or compoeted has anything like the subs, or insane stranegth

or striking power this kid has when it comes to mma.> hed be lost in a gi
but you take a gi off the best grappler his

weight in the world, and you allow striukes and my kid will

sub him. and same with striking,
he will ko the best boxer that weight standing if kicks and takedowsn
and elbows etc are allowed.
time will tell but he'll be regarded as the best in the world P4P some
day.

What if 16 year old Mike Tyson walked into
your dojang, wants to learn cage fighting.
How would you handle him, at a personal level,
and training?

Sam

 guess id train him doing what i could to manipulate him onto the
nright path.and probably fail.but in the end when he kileld or raped
someone at least hed have made me money.
and its not like he wouldnt kill and rape if i refused to train him.

*******************************************

But he might chew off your ear, all in the heat of training <G>.

On Oct 20, SPORTfighter <billamaho... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:



i train a kid in that division who may face either or both
the guys soon. hes the best fighter in the world this kid
i train. sounds insane, but im
telling you know ufc fighter ive trained with or
compoeted has anything like the subs, or insane stranegth
or striking power this kid has when it comes to mma.
hed be lost in a gi but you take a gi off the best grappler his
weight in the world, and you allow striukes and my kid will
sub him. and same with striking,
time will tell but he'll be regarded as the best in the world
P4P some day.

What if 16 year old Mike Tyson walked into
your dojang, wants to learn cage fighting.
How would you handle him, at a personal level,
and training?

guess id train him doing what i could to manipulate him onto
the nright path.and probably fail.but in the end when he kileld
or raped someone at least hed have made me money.
and its not like he wouldnt kill and rape if i refused to train him.

that's half the answer... try to straighten
out a troubled youth... it could be the start of
the next chapter in your life...

"The Gichoke Story, part 4: the guidance counselor years"

But what about fight training?  Here's a kid
who's one of the hardest punchers ever, the
potential for heavyweight champ, what kind
of UFC training should he get?  Does it matter
if he knows the flying arm bar?

What if 16 year old Mike Tyson walked into
your dojang, wants to learn cage fighting.
How would you handle him, at a personal level,
and training?

guess id train him doing what i could to manipulate him onto
the nright path. and probably fail. but in the end when he
kileld or raped someone at least hed have made me money.
and its not like he wouldnt kill and rape if i refused to train him.

that's half the answer... try to straighten
out a troubled youth... it could be the start of
the next chapter in your life...

only one kid did i ever kick out, he was 11 i think and was
brought in cause he killed his cat and was really scary to his
mom, he kept pulling other kids pants down and making lewd
comments and would always try and hurt the littler kids. it was
fun to call him a useless fat peice of shit and toss him.

he will kill sonone one day. probably
soon. no question. now he'll have to
use a knife cause i wouldnt keep
showing him chokes, so im off the hook.

"The Gichoke Story, part 4: the guidance counselor years"

beli9ve it or not its true, ive got kids here off drugs, on the right
path.but they got me on drugs so its kinda a reverse thing.

But what about fight training?  Here's a kid
who's one of the hardest punchers ever, the
potential for heavyweight champ, what kind
of UFC training should he get?  Does it matter
if he knows the flying arm bar?

heavyweight? then he must knpow it when he gets
high in level, but just enough to feel it, he need not
know how to do it. fundamentlas fendamentals fendamentals
is what i say. but when he masters em he can move on.
tyams BTW is too small to be heavy champ, a teen mike would
need be trained to be 205 champ.

why is it when somone says i missed the point they always did?
You've not explained yourself clearly enough?

agreed.Im projecting my own attributes onto others.I should stop that
and accept their limitations.

im wandering off now, but the greater points the same, MMA is not bjj
plus thai plus wrestling.MMA is its own sport.and must be trained that
way to be your best at.
Yes, if your goal is to be a pro MMA fighter. Assuming that's not the
majority of us, what then?

So let your own freak flag fly, go buy a dress or somthing.

So do you teach a triangle to noobs through a flurry of punches?
No.But your statement is a good way to make clear what i say.
No i dont teach a tringale vs punches.It must be made easier for them
to get it, so sparring at first has no punches.
Of course. You can call a triangle being taught without punching
teaching MMA, but that's indistinguishable from the same thing being
taught in judo or BJJ.

JESUS CHIRST IS IT ME?

IVE FUCKING EXPLAINED IT VERY CAREFULLY.
No, I DO NOT TEACH A TRIANGLE AS IN BJJ AND JUDO.
youve missed the point.My whole point, the entire point of 90% of my
posts and this whole thread.I give up.

You may wish to suggest that the dynamics of a
cage require different techniques or variations, and I'd agree with you
100%.

BUT when someone sez
"coach i cant open that guys guard when we roll?" i say "so? dont.you
cannot punch him as you arent rolling with punches, just stall on him
and take your decision win.It is on HIM to do something to you when
you are in his guard.
I have no insterst in prying open guard with my elbows..and i NEVER do
it.I dont put a quad between the buttcheeks and dont put my hands on
his stomach.and i dont teach it.
a month ago a few of my guys were doing a grappling event i seperated
them from the others and showed them a few things best i rememeber,
explaining to them it bugged me to do it, but they were asking and i
wanted them to compete, didnt care how they did....didnt even ask
after.just think competing is good practive for mma later on.
next time you take a class open your eyes and see MOST of what you are
taught and whats going on in rolling has zero relation to mma.

Not zero,

yup zero. It cannot be done in mma.

and only a precursor to MMA if MMA is your goal, which isn't
most grapplers' goal.

maybe not mma, but most the grapplers i knows goal is either mma or
developing the ability to fight.

not developing x guard sweeps that
will score you two points or get your jaw busted.

now if you like the sport grappling thats fine, i like chess and
target shooting, we all got our things.but go wtahc the ADCC on
youtube and you will nopt see the grappling part of MMA.Youls c a
seperate sport, a fun one sure, and one that can helop you ion self
defense, but it aint what i do.i just tonight chastised a couple of my
guys for staying rolling when the class was halfway through and i said
put gloves on and fight, those two are the guys who are huge into
ground, one takes gi bjj elsewhere.i let them keep rolling but i made
many good natured jokes that they were fags.i have this debate in
class every week,telling my guys (and girls and kids) like it issame
as i did here.
I'm sure you don't do this during the kids classes.

i do with the advanced one.But with the newer ones no i dont.But i
still dont teach them the 95% of grappling that will be useless with
strikes included.

self defense just doesnt seem to make me any money, people who train
for it usually get bored and quit, it doesnt sustain interst like
sport does.the few that stay who never wanna compete sometimes say its
for self defense to me, but they just say it cause saying its fun to
go and fight in the club may make them sound weird.
A lot of people want enough self defence to survive, which is fair
enough. Grappling is a great way to do that, especially if standing
toe-to-toe isn't going to work out well for you. Bear in mind this
apllies to MMA guys too. There is not nor is there likely to be a MMA
fighter with punching abilities like Floyd Maywether.

not the same as him no, but as effective punching for self defense?
much more so.

floyds skills are so specialized they are all but useless.

If it came to a
quick exchange of punches away from the cage, Mayweather by brutal KO.

on who? surely no big guy used to striking?

and whos gonna attck roy
in the street...a skinny guy like him or kimbo? i say kimbo, and i say
kimbo kos him in as treetfight standing.

so for lighter guys looking for self defense you can pretty much throw
punching out the window.

A smart MMA guy would HAVE to take him down before he got KO'd.

not a smart and GOOD mma guy.ever see ray mercer in K1?

floyd would
probably crumble as he stepped in to throw his first jab and ate a
cutkick by a duane ludwig.

i say daune wins in a kickboxing match.

I say sean sherk beats him in a
streetfight that doesnt even go to the ground.

flyd has a horrible
style for application to a real fight.

I know you
don't like to wander from the cage to the str33t, but sometimes it happens.

personally i favor guns in the street, but either way, both guns and
mma would most likley work.

There's simply no doubting where most MMA techniques have come from, and
that's my point.

where?

That MMA has developed into its own sport/whatever is
also indisputable.

yeah well all martial arts have come from rome before that eqypt, then
caveman fights, isnt that the theory?

maybe.i had a kid who was 18 years old and like 7-1 in mma ask me what
jiujitsu was.this after getting first in a NAGA and another grappling
deal too.but i take him as an anomaly.
'Anomaly' wasn't quite the word I was thinking of....

what were you thinking "world class fighter"? cause hes HELLA better
than the blackbelts ive known and thats on the ground.and hes a world
class standup guy too.
doesnt know nor care shit about the arts.hes a fighter, he doesnt need
to know.

maybe someday i can get him a gracie to face and we'll settle
this there.

So it's not only cage/rules differences? Or is it that you teach only techniques that are modified
for a cage and gloves?

next time you take a class open your eyes and see MOST of what you are
taught and whats going on in rolling has zero relation to mma.
Not zero,

yup zero. It cannot be done in mma.

More to the point, is that not every fight is in a MMA cage wearing gloves.

i do with the advanced one.But with the newer ones no i dont.But i
still dont teach them the 95% of grappling that will be useless with
strikes included.

In what context? A pro MMA fight?

floyds skills are so specialized they are all but useless.

If any MMA fighter ~ weight made the mistake of standing and trading punches only with
Mayweather, it would a brutally amusing bitch-slapping.

 If it came to a
quick exchange of punches away from the cage, Mayweather by brutal KO.

on who? surely no big guy used to striking?

Size matters of course, but most anyone +/- 25lbs.

and whos gonna attck roy
in the street...a skinny guy like him or kimbo? i say kimbo, and i say
kimbo kos him in as treetfight standing.

Mayweather would annihilate Kimbo, punches only.

not a smart and GOOD mma guy.ever see ray mercer in K1?

Yes.

floyd would
probably crumble as he stepped in to throw his first jab and ate a
cutkick by a duane ludwig.

Possibly. My point is that the choice that you make or is made for you
as to where and how you engage is important. Sometimes it doesn't make
sense to trade hands, particularly if your opponent has a big size advantage
or is a way better puncher. That 'way better puncher' for any MMA fighter
(before the size factor starts to kick in) is Mayweather.

i say daune wins in a kickboxing match.

Of course.

I say sean sherk beats him in a
streetfight that doesnt even go to the ground.

Possibly.

flyd has a horrible
style for application to a real fight.

Yes, he'd get taken down easily, but you'd have to avoid his hands first.


Other arts. It's called 'Mixed', remember?

maybe.i had a kid who was 18 years old and like 7-1 in mma ask me what
jiujitsu was.this after getting first in a NAGA and another grappling
deal too.but i take him as an anomaly.
'Anomaly' wasn't quite the word I was thinking of....
what were you thinking "world class fighter"? cause hes HELLA better
than the blackbelts ive known and thats on the ground.and hes a world
class standup guy too.
doesnt know nor care shit about the arts.hes a fighter, he doesnt need
to know.

At some point he'll likely get interested.

maybe someday i can get him a gracie to face and we'll settle
this there.

Nobody's opinions would change, no matter who won.

only one kid did i ever kick out, he was 11 i think and was
brought in cause he killed his cat and was really scary to his
mom, he kept pulling other kids pants down and making lewd
comments and would always try and hurt the littler kids. it was
fun to call him a useless fat peice of shit and toss him.

I'll have to check the child development manual,
but I don't believe that's the recommended method
for self-esteem and healthy emotional development...

tyams BTW is too small to be heavy champ, a teen mike would
need be trained to be 205 champ.

Tyson weighed 220 in his early days, faced
opponents much heavier, and KO them all.
So you have some explaining to do, to claim
why he couldn't compete at heavy.  You think
Carwin would out-punch him?

On Oct 17, SPORTfighter <billamaho... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:> thsi fight was big to me cause i train a kid who is in that division
who may face either or both the guys soon. hes the best fighter
in the world this kid i train. sounds insane, but im telling you
know ufc fighter ive trained with or bjjer, or kickboxer ive trained
or compoeted has anything like the subs, or insane stranegth

 >or striking power this kid has when it comes to mma.> hed be lost in a gi but you take a gi off the best grappler his

 >weight in the world, and you allow striukes and my kid will

sub him. and same with striking,
he will ko the best boxer that weight standing if kicks and takedowsn
and elbows etc are allowed.
time will tell but he'll be regarded as the best in the world P4P some
day.

What if 16 year old Mike Tyson walked into
your dojang, wants to learn cage fighting.
How would you handle him, at a personal level,
and training?

Sam

So it's not only cage/rules differences? Or is it that you teach only techniques that are modified
for a cage and gloves?

yes that, and the fact that the vast majority of giless bjj has no
place in mma, the moves are different sure, but what moves work is
also VERY different.again the most obvious is guard passing, sport
grappling guard passing doesnt exist in mma.

next time you take a class open your eyes and see MOST of what you are
taught and whats going on in rolling has zero relation to mma.
Not zero,
yup zero. It cannot be done in mma.
More to the point, is that not every fight is in a MMA cage wearing gloves.

still way more like in a cage nwearing gloves than it is like a
grappling match WAY more.

i do with the advanced one.But with the newer ones no i dont.But i
still dont teach them the 95% of grappling that will be useless with
strikes included.
In what context? A pro MMA fight?

yes.but also in a streetfight, though i dont care or go into it.

floyds skills are so specialized they are all but useless.
If any MMA fighter ~ weight made the mistake of standing and trading punches only with
Mayweather, it would a brutally amusing bitch-slapping.

i disagree.first off that the mma guy MAY shoot would fuck floyds head
up, second boxers train to explode over long periods, mma fighters are
different gloves are different, and the pressure is diffrent, a sean
sherk would trade with flioyd as he came in, his body would be pushing
floyd around like a pinball, sure he may get koed, he may ko floyd.

again, boxers are great in mma for hands, SOME boxers, floyds backs
off, gives ground, forward p[ressure by a WAY stronger guy who can
take a shot and bang would mess him up.
but its opinion, i only bring it up to say i disgree with your given,
we could both offer counter evidencre that would prove nothing so fuck
it.

If it came to a
quick exchange of punches away from the cage, Mayweather by brutal KO.
on who? surely no big guy used to striking?
Size matters of course, but most anyone +/- 25lbs.

disagree.ive seen him land 1000's of punches and ko maybe one guy,tons
of guys could take his shots.thousands.

and whos gonna attck roy
in the street...a skinny guy like him or kimbo? i say kimbo, and i say
kimbo kos him in as treetfight standing.
Mayweather would annihilate Kimbo, punches only.

boxing yup, not in mma if they fist fought, no way.seen so many lighrt
boxers fucked up by halfass mma guys way bigger in 6training i dont
see floyd ewinning.

not a smart and GOOD mma guy.ever see ray mercer in K1?
Yes.

floyd would
probably crumble as he stepped in to throw his first jab and ate a
cutkick by a duane ludwig.
Possibly. My point is that the choice that you make or is made for you
as to where and how you engage is important. Sometimes it doesn't make
sense to trade hands, particularly if your opponent has a big size advantage
or is a way better puncher. That 'way better puncher' for any MMA fighter
(before the size factor starts to kick in) is Mayweather.

i say daune wins in a kickboxing match.
Of course.

I say sean sherk beats him in a
streetfight that doesnt even go to the ground.
Possibly.

flyd has a horrible
style for application to a real fight.
Yes, he'd get taken down easily, but you'd have to avoid his hands first.

Other arts. It's called 'Mixed', remember?

it was called submission fighting til they changed it cause john
mccain wanted to ban it.its just a name.

maybe.i had a kid who was 18 years old and like 7-1 in mma ask me what
jiujitsu was.this after getting first in a NAGA and another grappling
deal too.but i take him as an anomaly.
'Anomaly' wasn't quite the word I was thinking of....
what were you thinking "world class fighter"? cause hes HELLA better
than the blackbelts ive known and thats on the ground.and hes a world
class standup guy too.
doesnt know nor care shit about the arts.hes a fighter, he doesnt need
to know.
At some point he'll likely get interested.

highly doubt it.i cant even make him do autpgraph sections or watch
dvds of guys hes likely to fight soon.he doesnt care about history,
just like to fight.

maybe someday i can get him a gracie to face and we'll settle
this there.
Nobody's opinions would change, no matter who won.

yeah probably.but if the gracie gets triangled like wagney did and the
opionions dont change thats only cause people are dumb.

tyams BTW is too small to be heavy champ, a teen mike would
need be trained to be 205 champ.

Tyson weighed 220 in his early days, faced
opponents much heavier, and KO them all.
So you have some explaining to do, to claim
why he couldn't compete at heavy.  You think
Carwin would out-punch him?

hes way too small for a lesner or carwin.
maybe tyson trained for mma from a young age wins, but
he maybe gets killed, at 205 hed be way way better.
and yes in best shape hes 222ish.

and lidell and griffen and many others are heavier than
him entering the cage to do 205 alot.

On Oct 24, SPORTfighter <billamaho... at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote:

tyams BTW is too small to be heavy champ, a teen mike would
need be trained to be 205 champ.

Tyson weighed 220 in his early days, faced
opponents much heavier, and KO them all.
So you have some explaining to do, to claim
why he couldn't compete at heavy.  You think
Carwin would out-punch him?

hes way too small for a lesner or carwin.
maybe tyson trained for mma from a young age wins, but
he maybe gets killed, at 205 hed be way way better.
and yes in best shape hes 222ish.

Against Lesnar, he'd be forced to grapple,
and get buried, same as everyone else.

But Carwin is a striker...

floored the Carwins, like bowling pins.
History and facts contradict your opinion,
as far as the punching aspect.  Of course,
mma is more than punching...

The question is, you have this kid who's a
phenom, how do you train him to take maximum
advantage of his boxing?  

standard curriculum, let him work out his own style?

and lidell and griffen and many others are heavier than
him entering the cage to do 205 alot.

You cannot claim they are in Tyson's class.