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| betsey... |
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:22 pm |
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On Oct 11, 10:16 pm, Hunter Hampton <airstreamingy... at (no spam) geemail.com>
wrote:
Quote: On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:49:30 -0700 (PDT), betsey <twoxo... at (no spam) aol.com
wrote:
OK, I'm at a loss...what's a GIGO?
Garbage in, garbage out.
hunter
Thanks Hunter! I can't wait to spring that in a work memo! |
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| John Hasler... |
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:07 pm |
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Jane Saranac writes:
Quote: Every other time I let it go, John.
Get yourself a newsreader with a killfile. Then you can put your
enemies in it and pretend they don't exist.
--
John Hasler Boarding, Lessons, Training
john at (no spam) dancinghorsehill.com Hay, Jumps, Cavallox
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA |
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| Hunter Hampton... |
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:16 pm |
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On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:49:30 -0700 (PDT), betsey <twoxover at (no spam) aol.com>
wrote:
Quote: OK, I'm at a loss...what's a GIGO?
Garbage in, garbage out.
hunter |
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| Emily Brooks... |
Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:57 pm |
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"Catja Pafort" <green_knight at (no spam) greenknight.org.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:1j7fzof.5zf9l16x3nooN%green_knight at (no spam) greenknight.org.uk.invalid...
This got mailed - too many meds going, sorry.
----- Original Message -----
Quote:
'To ride a transition to canter get an active walk or trot that feels
ready for a canter, slide your inside seatbone forward and allow the
canter.'
Catja
This is a recap of my lesson yesterday: prepare the stage, allow the
transition, do nothing. OK, a tweak or two to maintain (anything over a
tweak caused too much change). Then we changed direction and it still worked
but the prepare the stage part took more thought and care because he's not
as strong in that direction.
After my protest about upping the ante when Hoover was amped up. I'm
chicken-hearted through and through, and it's a LONG way to the ground from
16hh2". Richard's response: "Do it anyway." And Hoover dearest galumped off
in as nice as-close-to-collected canter as he is physically capable of just
now. Reverse direction, he galumped off huffily on the counter-lead twice
before I set the stage with a bit more exaggeration to make correct lead
easier. No muss, no fuss, and a nice ride.
"Do it anyway" is directed at my personal obstacles. The successes achieved
above are from riding the gestalt and not the parts.
Truth in journalism requires me to report that in true DQ mode, we also
spent time on the parts: separating the fronts from the backs AKA turn on
the forehand vs turn on the haunches and what each exercise buys you. TOF
winds my meager kinesthetic skills into a knot; TOH is simple. Trying to do
quarter-TOH-quarter-TOF drives my brain into quivering idiocy. (The point
was to teach the horse to be ready to move whichever, whenever, waiting for
a signal, and in his case to free up the shoulders.) This exercise is dirt
simple; I can do it when Richard watches. He doesn't have to say anything
.... Alone, well maybe I can do it without Richard in the vicinity now.
Emily - not a kinesthetic learner, more's the pity |
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| Nancy DeMarco... |
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:49 am |
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"Liz" <lizbsnab... at (no spam) email.dk> wrote:
Quote: I doubt if Mark Rashid will ever come to DK and if he ever did, then it
would be to the Copenhagen area, not here in the under populated western
area of Jutland! So I'll have to make do with his book.
I'll bet he would love to. All you have to do is organize a clinic
and sign up 8 riders, have a place to hold it where 8 horses can be
stabled, and where there's a suitable area in which to ride. It isn't
cheap, but the organizer here says he generally has 100 people on the
waiting list, and when Mark goes overseas, there are generally 300 on
the wait list.
I expected there to be a ton of auditors. But there were very few.
People want to ride with him, and they trucked to a fairly remote area
in New Hampshire from central Maine, Long Island, New York, southern
Massachusetts and Virginia - longish hauls.
If you set it up, they will come.
Just go to his website, drop him a line, and his wife will walk you
through the process and give you possible dates.
Quote: Liz (who has been lurking for ages, trying to get over the loss of a beloved
horse in April this year. Time helps heal..... etc. etc.)
I'm so very sorry. I've not yet lost a horse, despite coming very,
very close. But buying Lucy back means that this time, I will. And
she is not the healthiest of horses. I do worry about her.
Nancy |
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| Liz... |
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:55 pm |
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"Nancy DeMarco" <nancyd.lmt at (no spam) gmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
news:823f439a-8492-49bb-a2a2-a7e8ac74de1c at (no spam) k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Quote: You connect, and you become one.
So, some of the basic things that lingered in my mind...
The past is in the past - leave it there and go forward with what you
have now.
Focus on what you want rather than trying to fix what's wrong. Giving
power to the thing that you don't want just keeps it coming back.
Don't wait for the horse to do something wrong and then correct it -
catch the thought and re-direct it.
Softness and lightness are two different things.
Release when the horse softens his mind, rather than when he softens
physically/mechanically.
Meet the brace with softness, and he cannot brace. If he is bracing,
you are bracing.
Redirect rather than resist.
How you breathe, when you breathe, how you coordinate your breath with
your riding.
Coordinating change of direction with footfalls - ask as the foot
leaves the ground, not when it is planted.
Redirect the feet rather than the shoulder when the horse "falls in."
Changing gaits involves a change in rhythm, not in speed or tempo. To
do a transition, put the change in rhythm into your body, add an aid
as backup if needed.
Create the connection, embody the feeling of what you want, and go
together.
I haven't done him justice, but I'm sure Mark would be pleased with
the try. :)
Well done Nancy. A super report which has inspired me to order his latest
book: Whole heart, Whole Horse: Building Trust Between Horse and Rider, or
something like that. Has anyone here read it, and if so what did you think
of it?
I doubt if Mark Rashid will ever come to DK and if he ever did, then it
would be to the Copenhagen area, not here in the under populated western
area of Jutland! So I'll have to make do with his book.
And the rest of this thread has been one of the most interesting for a very
long time IMO.
Liz (who has been lurking for ages, trying to get over the loss of a beloved
horse in April this year. Time helps heal..... etc. etc.) |
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| Cricket... |
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:57 pm |
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at (no spam) d23g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>, twoxover at (no spam) aol.com says...
Quote:
I'm a lawyer by profession, but I've learned a boatload of physics,
chemistry, biology, etc. over the years. The main thing I've learned
is GIGO.
OK, I'm at a loss...what's a GIGO?
Garbage in, garbage out. |
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| Liz... |
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:00 pm |
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"Nancy DeMarco" <nancyd.lmt at (no spam) gmail.com> skrev i meddelelsen
news:823f439a-8492-49bb-a2a2-a7e8ac74de1c at (no spam) k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Quote: You connect, and you become one.
So, some of the basic things that lingered in my mind...
The past is in the past - leave it there and go forward with what you
have now.
Focus on what you want rather than trying to fix what's wrong. Giving
power to the thing that you don't want just keeps it coming back.
Don't wait for the horse to do something wrong and then correct it -
catch the thought and re-direct it.
Softness and lightness are two different things.
Release when the horse softens his mind, rather than when he softens
physically/mechanically.
Meet the brace with softness, and he cannot brace. If he is bracing,
you are bracing.
Redirect rather than resist.
How you breathe, when you breathe, how you coordinate your breath with
your riding.
Coordinating change of direction with footfalls - ask as the foot
leaves the ground, not when it is planted.
Redirect the feet rather than the shoulder when the horse "falls in."
Changing gaits involves a change in rhythm, not in speed or tempo. To
do a transition, put the change in rhythm into your body, add an aid
as backup if needed.
Create the connection, embody the feeling of what you want, and go
together.
I haven't done him justice, but I'm sure Mark would be pleased with
the try. :)
Well done Nancy. A super report which has inspired me to order his latest
book: Whole heart, Whole Horse: Building Trust Between Horse and Rider, or
something like that. Has anyone here read it, and if so what did you think
of it?
I doubt if Mark Rashid will ever come to DK and if he ever did, then it
would be to the Copenhagen area, not here in the under populated western
area of Jutland! So I'll have to make do with his book.
And the rest of this thread has been one of the most interesting for a very
long time IMO.
Liz (who has been lurking for ages, trying to get over the loss of a beloved
horse in April this year. Time helps heal..... etc. etc.) |
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| Nancy DeMarco... |
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:47 am |
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green_kni... at (no spam) greenknight.org.uk.invalid (Catja Pafort) wrote:
Quote: You see, that is actually something I am very much *not* in favour of
and which I cannot admire. Just because you can do it does not mean you
should. A horse needs to be prepared to do upper level movements
correctly - and to do them incorrectly makes no sense at all.
I disagree.
I think it is just fine to ask a youngster for, say, piaffe. And I
see no reason it cannot be done correctly right out of the box. But I
would want to see nothing more than a few steps, then rest. Ideally I
like to see youngsters hacked, and I see no reason not to intersperse
the ride with a few requests for collection, even extreme collection.
To me, it makes far more sense to do something like that, than to ride
'round and 'round on the forehand, expecting this will develop the
horse to do something other than going 'round and 'round on the
forehand.
Nancy |
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| Nancy DeMarco... |
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:51 pm |
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green_kni... at (no spam) greenknight.org.uk.invalid (Catja Pafort) wrote:
Quote: My take on clinicians who ride is that unless the horse is particularly
puzzling, or unless the clinician is looking for a breakthrough with a
new movement, it's usually nothing other than a show of how great the
clinician is. Which is very boring to watch, and rather pointless - if I
didn't think that the instructor was a better rider than me, I wouldn't
be taking lessons from them - I *expect* that the horse will go better
under them.
I agree. There certainly are times when it is helpful to have the
instructor get on, to clarify something for the horse so that the
rider can get there more easily. But the thing that impressed me with
Mark was that he made such tremendous strides with every horse/rider
pair without getting on himself. What a confidence boost to a rider
to be able to take the horse somewhere neither of them had been! And
a few of those riders were so very invested in their methods and
beliefs, that I would not have known where or how to begin.
I had a lesson yesterday - took Lucy, explained to my instructor that
I wanted to be treated like a beginner, wanted to stay at a little
beginner jog while she worked on my position and seat and letting go.
She not only agreed to follow my plan - I think she was positively
giddy. And Lucy kept offering collection, rather than just pooping
along. It went really well. :)
And the slow, slow work has made a difference in Lucy. She is
softening laterally and longitudinally much more easily. She's
getting a bit of rotation through the lumbar region and some flexion
at the sacrum - areas that have been held rigid for a very long time.
And on the trails, she can go straight downhill rather than shuffling,
or trying to traverse. And she can glide backwards. When we started
backing, just a week ago, her back would lock up, and she would feel
like she had gone uphill into a fence. Now she has learned to flex at
the sacrum, load the hindquarters, and glide. And she is unlocking a
little more every day. And she is much happier.
She saw the chiropractor today, and had no pain response anywhere. I
had worked on her first, then longed her a bit to see if there was
anything obvious I had missed, then went for a 30-minute hack. We
galloped a bit, jumped a teeny bit, did a few hills, came home and...
she colicked. She had no interest in grass or an apple, instead
dropping to the ground in the run-in, yawning, stretching and rocking
back and forth.
She recovered quickly - probably just gas. But she has me concerned.
Her gut has been a problem lately. Too many fall leaves and acorns?
Or the mass is growing? Or? Today she had eaten half a flake of new
hay (a sample bale) just before I got on, but it is very similar to
her usual hay. So, I dunno. Back to her usual hay, and I'll try the
new stuff again in a few days. Or not. Too bad - I thought I had
another 300 bales of suitable hay lined up.
Nancy |
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| AKogler... |
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:49 pm |
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On Oct 15, 4:27 pm, Ocean of Nuance <lizRMOVzardwo... at (no spam) nc.rr.com>
wrote:
Quote: Catja Pafort wrote:
Ocean of Nuance <lizRMOVzardwo... at (no spam) nc.rr.com> wrote:
(snip)
Equally, Mary Wanless sounds completely bonkers to me - 'make sure that
your flashlights are pointing downwards' - but it works for many riders
and that's what counts.
I've heard Mary Wanless speak, and briefly talked to her. Beyond the
seemingly insane imagery is very sound knowledge. I just wanted a
dictionary.
Wanless explains clearly how upper level riders get there in my opinion
and not just what they are doing.
Would pay whatever she charges to work with her.
Well she does clinics, with Hillary Clayton. I went to one last fall.
Why dont you go? Be a rider in her clinic.
The website is nakedriding.com or some such. She does clinics all
over.
Abby |
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| Catja Pafort... |
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:29 pm |
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Ocean of Nuance wrote:
Quote: Nancy DeMarco wrote:
Ocean of Nuance <lizRMOVzardwo... at (no spam) nc.rr.com> wrote:
I might clinic with someone who doesn't get on but they would have to be
special. Even deKunffy used to get on horses in clinics at an advanced
age. That's where the bar is set.
Why? Who cares if he can get great things from your horse? Doesn't
it make more sense to work with someone who can get great things from
you?
That's why I'm going. :)
Because a key way I have learned is to have my instructor (or clinician)
create the right feeling so I know what I am aiming for.
And you've never had an instructor who could tell you to do this, that,
and the other (or never been able to process instructions?) so that the
horse would give you the feel?
Are those instructors *that* are?
I've had several, so this is, to me, a hallmark of a really good
instructor... but not an exceptional skill. And I've managed to do it
for other riders - mentally put yourself in the saddle (even of a horse
you haven't ridden before), tell the rider which aids to give in the
moment they need to give them, and watch them realise that this is how
you get the horse to improve. Do that several times, and the rider will
be able to recognise the 'before' moment and apply the aids and get to
the 'after' without needing to be instructed.
Quote: Learning to ride in the lower levels is learning how to gain the
pyramidal elements before the ride is over.  If folks have never
learned what a warmed up horse feels like and the clinician gets it in
less than 10 minutes, that leaves more time to learn how the horse
should feel and how to get it them self after knowing what to shoot for.
That's a one-off experience... and better reserved for the instructor at
home who knows the horse.
Quote: It is arguable that one reason why folks don't advance faster or further
is that they have never felt what is right or have never ridden an upper
level school master.
Sure... but there's not much learning going on if the rider gets on the
horse someone else has improved and the horse gets worse and needs
correcting again and so on. (Often for years.) You need to teach the
rider what to do in order to create the result, too.
My take on clinicians who ride is that unless the horse is particularly
puzzling, or unless the clinician is looking for a breakthrough with a
new movement, it's usually nothing other than a show of how great the
clinician is. Which is very boring to watch, and rather pointless - if I
didn't think that the instructor was a better rider than me, I wouldn't
be taking lessons from them - I *expect* that the horse will go better
under them.
That's not the reason I take lessons. What I want to learn is how to
ride better myself, to have *my* problems corrected, because I will have
to deal with those issues every ride, and I am likely to induce the same
problems every time I ride. I've watched too often how a good rider gets
on the horse, works him for fifteen minutes, and declares the problem
solved - with no learning effect for either horse or rider.
Catja
--
writing blog at (no spam) http://beyond-elechan.livejournal.com |
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| Ocean of Nuance... |
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:27 pm |
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Catja Pafort wrote:
Quote: Ocean of Nuance <lizRMOVzardwoman at (no spam) nc.rr.com> wrote:
(snip)
Quote: Equally, Mary Wanless sounds completely bonkers to me - 'make sure that
your flashlights are pointing downwards' - but it works for many riders
and that's what counts.
I've heard Mary Wanless speak, and briefly talked to her. Beyond the
seemingly insane imagery is very sound knowledge. I just wanted a
dictionary.
Wanless explains clearly how upper level riders get there in my opinion
and not just what they are doing.
Would pay whatever she charges to work with her.
sharon |
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