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KCLO3 and sulfer sensitivity...

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FlaMtnBkr...
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:42 pm
Guest
I always hear to use separate tools for chlorate to reduce sulfer
contamination. How sensitive are the 2 together and how far do you
need to go to reduce chance of contamination?

If I were to make a salute using chlorate would the sulfer in the time
fuse or cross match be a problem?

What about a prime on a chlorate star?

Thanks!
 
FlaMtnBkr...
Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:15 pm
Guest
sulfer? Sulfur! I do know how to spell sulfur but I don't know what
happened. I guess tired + pain + pain killers = sulfer

Still need to figure out the chlorate thing. Thanks!


FlaMtnBkr wrote:
Quote:
I always hear to use separate tools for chlorate to reduce sulfer
contamination. How sensitive are the 2 together and how far do you
need to go to reduce chance of contamination?

If I were to make a salute using chlorate would the sulfer in the time
fuse or cross match be a problem?

What about a prime on a chlorate star?

Thanks!
 
hhc314...
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:40 am
Guest
On Sep 27, 11:15 pm, FlaMtnBkr <flamtn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
sulfer? Sulfur! I do know how to spell sulfur but I don't know what
happened. I guess tired + pain + pain killers = sulfer

Still need to figure out the chlorate thing. Thanks!



FlaMtnBkr wrote:
I always hear to use separate tools for chlorate to reduce sulfer
contamination. How sensitive are the 2 together and how far do you
need to go to reduce chance of contamination?

If I were to make a salute using chlorate would the sulfer in the time
fuse or cross match be a problem?

What about a prime on a chlorate star?

Thanks!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not an issue that a sane individual worries about.

Do you use black powder as part of your star comps? If you are
concerned about chlorates and sufur, return to you non-chlorate comps.

Not a big deal.

Harry C.
 
FlaMtnBkr...
Posted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:48 am
Guest
If that little of contact isn't a big deal then great. A group buy
plus me wanting to experiment with chlorate colors has lead me to have
a 'little' bit of KCLO3. Just wanted to know how sensitive it can get
over time.

I can reduce the sulfur in everything except premade materials like
time fuse and black match.

Thanks

hhc314 wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 27, 11:15 pm, FlaMtnBkr <flamtn... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
sulfer? Sulfur! I do know how to spell sulfur but I don't know what
happened. I guess tired + pain + pain killers = sulfer

Still need to figure out the chlorate thing. Thanks!



FlaMtnBkr wrote:
I always hear to use separate tools for chlorate to reduce sulfer
contamination. How sensitive are the 2 together and how far do you
need to go to reduce chance of contamination?

If I were to make a salute using chlorate would the sulfer in the time
fuse or cross match be a problem?

What about a prime on a chlorate star?

Thanks!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not an issue that a sane individual worries about.

Do you use black powder as part of your star comps? If you are
concerned about chlorates and sufur, return to you non-chlorate comps.

Not a big deal.

Harry C.
 
Bob...
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:17 pm
Guest
On Sep 30, 8:18 pm, Peter Fairbrother <zenadsl6... at (no spam) zen.co.uk> wrote:

Quote:
Hmmm, can you seperate the compositions by eg coating chlorate stars for
use with BP breaking charges with NC lacquer - makes a good prime too  Smile

By itself?
 
super6...
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:09 am
Guest
On Sep 30, 9:17 pm, Bob <robg... at (no spam) bestweb.net> wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 30, 8:18 pm, Peter Fairbrother <zenadsl6... at (no spam) zen.co.uk> wrote:

Hmmm, can you seperate the compositions by eg coating chlorate stars for
use with BP breaking charges with NC lacquer - makes a good prime too  :)

By itself?

Bob, I use Nc lacquer in acetone to bind a bit of Valine superprime on
top of chlorate rolled stars before adding the final spiderweb
formulation to make golden sparks. Haven"t blown up yet!

J.E.B.
 
Bob...
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:41 am
Guest
On Oct 1, 3:09 pm, super6 <jpbr... at (no spam) rjsonline.net> wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 30, 9:17 pm, Bob <robg... at (no spam) bestweb.net> wrote:

On Sep 30, 8:18 pm, Peter Fairbrother <zenadsl6... at (no spam) zen.co.uk> wrote:

Hmmm, can you seperate the compositions by eg coating chlorate stars for
use with BP breaking charges with NC lacquer - makes a good prime too  :)

By itself?

Bob, I use Nc lacquer in acetone to bind a bit of Valine superprime on
top of chlorate rolled stars before adding the final spiderweb
formulation to make golden sparks. Haven"t blown up yet!

Sure, lots of us have sometimes used NC lacquer as a glue for dry
priming comp (especially fine grained BP) or as a binder for a compo
(priming or otherwise). But Peter Fairbrother's use of the word
"makes" in "makes a good prime" is the ambiguity I was trying to clear
up. Does he mean it can be used as a primer by itself (seems too slow
burning), or just to "make" a prime by being a binder in a priming
comp?

Robert
 
Bob...
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:43 am
Guest
On Oct 3, 3:24 pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

Quote:
I have had "sour" red phosphorus induce spontaneous explosion of "spit
devils".

Some of the red converts over time to the amorphous form, which then
oxidizes and combines with humidity to form phosphoric acid.  It, alone,
is sufficient impetus to cause the devils to spit when they have mostly
dried.

Spit of the devil and he shall adhere?

Quote:
"Sour" covers a lot of ground, but usually infers an acid condition.  If
it tastes sour, it's probably acid enough to start a reaction.  Same
thing if it were sensibly bitter, but on the opposite side the the pH
spectrum.

No, I doubt it. Bitter taste is much less strongly dependent on
alkalinity than is sour taste on acidity. And even the latter
relationship is only one of several factors. A weak acid can taste
much sourer than a strong one of equal normality.

Robert
 
super6...
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:47 pm
Guest
On Oct 2, 2:41 pm, Bob <robg... at (no spam) bestweb.net> wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 1, 3:09 pm, super6 <jpbr... at (no spam) rjsonline.net> wrote:

On Sep 30, 9:17 pm, Bob <robg... at (no spam) bestweb.net> wrote:

On Sep 30, 8:18 pm, Peter Fairbrother <zenadsl6... at (no spam) zen.co.uk> wrote:

Hmmm, can you seperate the compositions by eg coating chlorate stars for
use with BP breaking charges with NC lacquer - makes a good prime too  :)

By itself?

Bob, I use Nc lacquer in acetone to bind a bit of Valine superprime on
top of chlorate rolled stars before adding the final spiderweb
formulation to make golden sparks. Haven"t blown up yet!

Sure, lots of us have sometimes used NC lacquer as a glue for dry
priming comp (especially fine grained BP) or as a binder for a compo
(priming or otherwise).  But Peter Fairbrother's use of the word
"makes" in "makes a good prime" is the ambiguity I was trying to clear
up.  Does he mean it can be used as a primer by itself (seems too slow
burning), or just to "make" a prime by being a binder in a priming
comp?

Robert

Bob, Peter has a mind of his own.(Insert smilely face here). My post
was more for the O.P. And his fear of the evil sulfur/ chlorate
contact.
 
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh...
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:24 pm
Guest
hhc314 <hhc314 at (no spam) yahoo.com> fired this volley in news:bb79c458-4956-4178-
a75c-c7b039a2bd0a at (no spam) k41g2000vbt.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
Still, and I may have missed it since I have other 'fish to fry', I
don't recall Mike, Lloyd, or anyone else using the term "Sour" in the
thread, and that somewhat surpised me.



Mike several times mentioned "sour" paste as a causative for spontaneous
ignitions.

I have had "sour" red phosphorus induce spontaneous explosion of "spit
devils".

Some of the red converts over time to the amorphous form, which then
oxidizes and combines with humidity to form phosphoric acid. It, alone,
is sufficient impetus to cause the devils to spit when they have mostly
dried.

"Sour" covers a lot of ground, but usually infers an acid condition. If
it tastes sour, it's probably acid enough to start a reaction. Same
thing if it were sensibly bitter, but on the opposite side the the pH
spectrum.

LLoyd
 
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh...
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:31 pm
Guest
Bob <robgood at (no spam) bestweb.net> fired this volley in news:eab2b1de-1063-4596-
bd2f-2778c78ba00a at (no spam) j9g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:

Quote:
A weak acid can taste
much sourer than a strong one of equal normality.



I agree, but in my limited experience, any acid strong enough to taste is
strong enough to cause a reaction with metals, oxidizers, and metal
salts.

Bitter I will defer to you. I know there are numerous substances that
are bitter and are not alkaline.

LLoyd
 
mikes2653...
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:25 pm
Guest
Actually, in this thread I've mentioned soured gum arabic solution
several times. Sour paste is bad if you are going to use paste to
dampen something like the chlorate silver I think I've described here
in the past, or the rosette mix. I always mix fresh for those purposes
and use it right away.

Gum arabic is at least partly composed of a complex sugar called
arabinose (all organics ending in "-ose" are some sort of sugar). As
Lancaster observes, the solution tends to be acidic in the first
place, and becomes more so if allowed to ferment.; he counsels
avoiding it for chlorate mixtures. The normal path of fermentation
goes through an alcoholic stage and ends in an acid, e.g., acetic,
malic, lactic. Thus wine, cider, or ale all become vinegar unless kept
from air. These end products of fermentation are mild acids, but even
a mildly acidic pH in solution can start the ball rolling if a mixture
of acidic flowers of sulphur and a chlorate be dampened with it.

The benefit of gum arabic's natural acidity is that it protects
aluminum against oxidation. That's why it is used to preserve aluminum
litho plates. In non-chlorate mixes containing aluminum, such as the
'pampanino' tremalon, it may be of positive advantage. We still don't
want it to ferment and become sour.



On Oct 3, 2:24 pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
Quote:
hhc314 <hhc... at (no spam) yahoo.com> fired this volley in news:bb79c458-4956-4178-
a75c-c7b039a2b... at (no spam) k41g2000vbt.googlegroups.com:

Still, and I may have missed it since I have other 'fish to fry', I
don't recall Mike, Lloyd, or anyone else using the term "Sour" in the
thread, and that somewhat surpised me.

Mike several times mentioned "sour" paste as a causative for spontaneous
ignitions.

I have had "sour" red phosphorus induce spontaneous explosion of "spit
devils".

Some of the red converts over time to the amorphous form, which then
oxidizes and combines with humidity to form phosphoric acid.  It, alone,
is sufficient impetus to cause the devils to spit when they have mostly
dried.

"Sour" covers a lot of ground, but usually infers an acid condition.  If
it tastes sour, it's probably acid enough to start a reaction.  Same
thing if it were sensibly bitter, but on the opposite side the the pH
spectrum.

LLoyd
 
Richard J Kinch...
Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:44 pm
Guest
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh writes:

Quote:
"Sour" covers a lot of ground, but usually infers an acid condition.

The word sour (sauer) in German means and equates to acid.

(Let's hope the old "paraffin" canard doesn't resurrect.)
 
 
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