The last I visited this site was around the time starlighter was
involved in it's law suite.
There were many knowledgeable people like lloyd, Mike, Don Tes, Harry
and others that escape my memory. There was also Joe Smith, who quite
often differed with many in the forum.  Has everyone left this site
for another?  Can someone please help.  I had to leave for personal
reasons and now that I have returned things are completely different.
A very unpleasant surprise I must admit.

Has everyone left this site for another?

The last I visited this site was around the time starlighter was
involved in it's law suite.
There were many knowledgeable people like lloyd, Mike, Don Tes, Harry
and others that escape my memory. There was also Joe Smith, who quite
often differed with many in the forum.  Has everyone left this site
for another?  Can someone please help.  I had to leave for personal
reasons and now that I have returned things are completely different.
A very unpleasant surprise I must admit.

On Sep 23, 3:06 pm, Frank <fj... at (no spam) myway.com> wrote:

The last I visited this site was around the time starlighter was
involved in it's law suite.
There were many knowledgeable people like lloyd, Mike, Don Tes, Harry
and others that escape my memory. There was also Joe Smith, who quite
often differed with many in the forum.  Has everyone left this site
for another?  Can someone please help.  I had to leave for personal
reasons and now that I have returned things are completely different.
A very unpleasant surprise I must admit.

Frank, welcome back.  I remember you from the 'good old days'.

Way back in the beginning, when dinosaurs roamed the earth, it was a
very different newsgroup.  Back then, rec.pyro was mostly the turf of
older, rather expeience pyro's may of whom have now passed away
(almost all from natural causes).  There was no BATFE, no PGI, and
most of us here then had learned the craft on a 'mouth to ear' basis,
because there were almost no books, except Davis.  Then, almost every
fireworks show was hand-fired (without the benefit of fireproof Kevlar
clothing (damp jeans and a t-shirt were the normal protective garb.)
Oh yes, I once posted about never shooting a display while wearing
sneakers...and why, which would fall on deaf ears today, but at the
time everyone on the newsgroup agreed...you wore leather engineers or
combat boots...because of the dross dripping from the flares.

Nobody cared about PC, and we all would 'bust each other's balls'
without mercy and nobody ever complained...  Most guys at that times
shot fireworks professionally, and for many of us the only reason why
we shot public displays at all was simply to get a sponsor to pay for
the fireworks that we shot or made, since there was little money to be
made and it was simply a labor of love.

Things have changed since fireworks became an accepted hobby, and not
something that only weird people do.  Unfortunately, around 10 years
back, the climate of the newsgroup began to change.  Today people who
have participated in shooting 2 or 3 displays consider themselves
experts on the subject, and anyone who has had 30 or 50 years of safe
display exerience is considered archaic and obsolete, and if one were
to 'bust the balls' of many of the current newsgroup participants, you
created an enemy forever, like Joe Smith.

Such is life.  Today, the hobby guys are not willing to accept the
pain and minor burns that go with the turf, and resent any criticism
of their methods.  They also will not accept the safety protocols that
were used in the past with such success (buried mortars, timbers,
etc.) because it represents too much work.  I suppose 'instant
gratification' is a term that comes to mind.  That's what they want,
and it is dangerous!

'Nuff said, and I'll get some more hate mail for even posting this.
This is how 'thin skinned' the newsgroup participants of today are,
and why the older and more experienced pyros no longer post here, but
just for their jollies, sometimes read the posts.

Frank, subscribe to 'Passfire', which is where most of the discussion
takes place today.

Harry C.

In that case, the issue
become which mortar composition is radiologically opaque. A point
worth thinking about.

hhc314 <hhc... at (no spam) yahoo.com> fired this volley in news:687b340f-4c47-40d1-
8bf0-f00fc811a... at (no spam) m20g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:

In that case, the issue
become which mortar composition is radiologically opaque.  A point
worth thinking about.

1) That's an old wives' tale.  HDPE (and PVC) shows up just fine in X-ray
contrast to human flesh.  Neither are pure resin; the former is loaded
with particulate carbon to protect it from UV, and the latter charged
with calcium carbonate filler that looks like bone under X-rays.

2) HDPE mortars don't "fragmentate".  They balloon, stretch, and finally
tear into thin shreds that do not pose a shrapnel hazard beyond a few
feet distance.

You were right about one thing, Harry:  Luck had a lot to do with your
stories:

A)----- Obviously there was no insurance claim in that case.

  Oh... you're saying because both you AND the fire department were
negligent, the insurance company decided not to subrogate their claim?  

Or was it that you both just covered it up, and never reported it?

B)------ Worse still, while single handed shooting a July 4th display in
Niagara Falls NY, somebody managed to steal a large shell from one of
my ready boxes.

  So... You were operating without proper security and no crowd-control,
without a spotter (a criminal offense, by YOUR standards), and without
knowlege of unauthorized personnel making physical access to your
equipment?   OhhhhhhKay!  I can see you in that situation, Harry.

You understand, don't you, that the last two stories you just told make a
lie of every other claim to good-sense safety you've ever made?

LLoyd

Nothing of note

hhc314 <hhc... at (no spam) yahoo.com> fired this volley in news:f2ed7f9d-a538-44e8-
8c07-5b1e63aad... at (no spam) j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:



Nothing of note

You don't deny that shooting without a spotter, without security, and
without knowlege of events on the field is negligent?

With all the "safety" information you have filled us up with, Harry, you
couldn't possibly deny it.  Yet, to save face after your having disclosed
that you did it deliberately, you must.

It's expected and always confirmed that liars pile lies upon lies until
they themselves cannot keep the facts straight.  They always trip
themselves up.  You just did.

Harry, for a long, long time, I respected you on the basis of your
claims; claims that turned out to be hollow and false.  There's little
you will ever say or write in the future that could positively impact
this industry.  Give it up.  

LLoyd

hhc314 <hhc... at (no spam) yahoo.com> fired this volley in news:f2ed7f9d-a538-44e8-
8c07-5b1e63aad... at (no spam) j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:



Nothing of note

You don't deny that shooting without a spotter, without security, and
without knowlege of events on the field is negligent?

With all the "safety" information you have filled us up with, Harry, you
couldn't possibly deny it.  Yet, to save face after your having disclosed
that you did it deliberately, you must.

It's expected and always confirmed that liars pile lies upon lies until
they themselves cannot keep the facts straight.  They always trip
themselves up.  You just did.

Harry, for a long, long time, I respected you on the basis of your
claims; claims that turned out to be hollow and false.  There's little
you will ever say or write in the future that could positively impact
this industry.  Give it up.  

LLoyd

hhc314 <hhc... at (no spam) yahoo.com> fired this volley in news:f2ed7f9d-a538-44e8-
8c07-5b1e63aad... at (no spam) j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:



Nothing of note

You don't deny that shooting without a spotter, without security, and
without knowlege of events on the field is negligent?

With all the "safety" information you have filled us up with, Harry, you
couldn't possibly deny it.  Yet, to save face after your having disclosed
that you did it deliberately, you must.

It's expected and always confirmed that liars pile lies upon lies until
they themselves cannot keep the facts straight.  They always trip
themselves up.  You just did.

Harry, for a long, long time, I respected you on the basis of your
claims; claims that turned out to be hollow and false.  There's little
you will ever say or write in the future that could positively impact
this industry.  Give it up.  

LLoyd

On 28 Sep, 22:06, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com
wrote:





hhc314 <hhc... at (no spam) yahoo.com> fired this volley in news:f2ed7f9d-a538-44e8-
8c07-5b1e63aad... at (no spam) j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:

Nothing of note

You don't deny that shooting without a spotter, without security, and
without knowlege of events on the field is negligent?

With all the "safety" information you have filled us up with, Harry, you
couldn't possibly deny it.  Yet, to save face after your having disclosed
that you did it deliberately, you must.

It's expected and always confirmed that liars pile lies upon lies until
they themselves cannot keep the facts straight.  They always trip
themselves up.  You just did.

Harry, for a long, long time, I respected you on the basis of your
claims; claims that turned out to be hollow and false.  There's little
you will ever say or write in the future that could positively impact
this industry.  Give it up.  

LLoyd

Without realizing it, you have become "Harry".

All the pomposity you would lay at his feet- you now display.

It is easy to kick an old dude when he is down. Try it w/someone your
own 'size' hows about.

You are a coward.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 28 Sep, 22:06, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com
wrote:





hhc314 <hhc... at (no spam) yahoo.com> fired this volley in news:f2ed7f9d-a538-44e8-
8c07-5b1e63aad... at (no spam) j19g2000vbp.googlegroups.com:

Nothing of note

You don't deny that shooting without a spotter, without security, and
without knowlege of events on the field is negligent?

With all the "safety" information you have filled us up with, Harry, you
couldn't possibly deny it.  Yet, to save face after your having disclosed
that you did it deliberately, you must.

It's expected and always confirmed that liars pile lies upon lies until
they themselves cannot keep the facts straight.  They always trip
themselves up.  You just did.

Harry, for a long, long time, I respected you on the basis of your
claims; claims that turned out to be hollow and false.  There's little
you will ever say or write in the future that could positively impact
this industry.  Give it up.  

LLoyd

Without realizing it, you have become "Harry".

All the pomposity you would lay at his feet- you now display.

It is easy to kick an old dude when he is down. Try it w/someone your
own 'size' hows about.

You are a coward.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You didn't read any of the pages of spew where he raled against
_anything_ and _anyone_ involved in the close-proximity industry,
LLoyd

Without realizing it, you have become "Harry".

All the pomposity you would lay at his feet- you now display.