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barrassie...
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:14 am
Guest
The Nobilary Fraternity of the Nia Nasc

There have been some comments on rec heraldry which are ignorant –
probably my fault as I have never replied to put the record straight.
In 1980 I was contacted by a man called Terence McCarthy. He told me
that his father was The McCarthy Mor, and had passed the title to him.
He had ideas about reviving an ancient pre chivalric order, The Order
of the Niadh Nask. It would be charitable in aim, and those of high
rank in Ireland and further afield would be invited to join.. Every
year there would be an appeal for a named charity and all members
would be asked to give according to their means.. It seemed like an
admirable and interesting project. Before agreeing to help him I
checked with the Chief Herald. Yes the man was McCarthy Mor, Prince of
Desmond. The Order was set up and flourished and the annual donations
given to a named charity every year. In about 1982 he showed me a
letter from the Chief Herald of Ireland saying that he was entitled
to titles of the lands of McCarthy Mor. He gave titles to some friends
and others who had helped him. Then he had a letter from Burke’s
offering to sell the titles for him – again I saw the letter- but he
did not accept the offer. In 1989, I left Ireland to live in Scotland,
and had little contact after that. He came to visit in 1991, and my
wife and I had lunch with him in Belfast the following year, but
haven’t seen him since then. He had made good contacts in North
Anerica, and had a committee in Atlanta, and one in Canada and I heard
little, apart from the annual charity appeal which did well.
He had new and powerful friends and I believe travelled several times
to the States. In 1999 rumours started and the Chief Herald of Ireland
removed the courtesy recognition of McCarthy Mor, Prince of Desmond
and the coat of arms from Terence McCarthy. It was said that his
pedigree was flawed, and to quell the rumours I asked my wife, who has
had some success as a sleuth to check it out. To my disbelief she
confirmed that there was indeed a flaw in the pedigree. Was this an
old family paper that he had found in a trunk and assumed that it was
correct, or were any papers altered? He immeadiately left for Morocco
where he had a house, so sadly we drew our own conclusions. He left
behind a devastation of shock, hurt, anger and disbelief. He had taken
in the Chief Herald’s Office, the Irish Chiefs, the Taoiseach (Head
Government of Ireland) and many people on both sides of the Atlantic.
The Order of the Niadh Nask ceaed to exist from that minute, if it
ever had – a point of academic debate. Then it came to light that he
had been selling membership of the Order for a large amount of money
to Americans and also titles at a larger ammount of money. Most of the
‘title holders’ dropped their titles imeadiately, but some continue to
use them with the argument that at the time Terence McCarthy had
courtesy recognition as The McCarthy Mor, Prince of Desmond, I do not
agree as his recognition was through a pedigree that was was later
prove to be flawed. Terence McCarthy, during his ‘reign’ as McCarthy
Mor had done some good things for Ireland. He set up the Standing
Council of Irish Chiefs, he was a good ‘Chief’ to the McCarthy Clan,
he worked with Pier Felice Uberti and his wife Loredana on the ICOC,
and supported the Noble Society of Celts as Patron. The Noble Society
of Celts continues to flourish, and the ICOC is still organised by
Pier Felice and his wife Loredana. How sad that it was all done on a
flawed pedigree! How tragic was the backlash for Ireland.
Many Americans had paid considerable sums of money to belong to an
order that did not exist, many had bought titles that most of them
would not now wish to use, one had a stock of books selling one day,
unsaleable the next and left with a huge financial loss. Europeans
were not so badly hurt financialy, but still stunned. Then it appeared
that there was another loss – the companionship, the working to-
gether. Could that be replaced in any way?
The answer was setting up a new fraternity, which is not an order, The
Nobiliary Fraternity of the Nia Nasc, open to those of noble rank by
office or descent and named in memory of the gaelic warrior elite, who
wore a golden or silver chain or torque (nia nasc is gaelic for golden
chain). – no connection with Terence. Surely Terence McCarthy has not
done so much harm that we can’t use gaelic words?

My pedigree, questioned recently by one not familiar with Scottish
records can be verified back to the 15th century. It is written but
not proved that the descent came from Lochlan McCairhill, Roidamna
(the future King of Ulster), who fled from Ireland to Scotland after
loosing a battle c 1087, and I would be delighted if a researcher
could find the link! I have accepted ‘Bonds of Manrent’ (the wording
checked and approved at Lyon Office) from friends in different
countries who wish to have ties with Scotland. In days of old, they
could be called on to attack enemies – to-day we are more civilised,
all I expect is friendship and loyalty, which I give in return. In
former days Scottish Barons had the power of ‘Pit and Gallows’ but
this would not be allowed today.
A year after ‘the collapse’ I had a phone call from Terence McCarthy’s
younger brother Conor following an Easter charity Appeal sent me by
‘The McCarthy Mor’ He said that Terence had given him the title with
the Order of the Niadh Nask before he left for Morocco!!! I advised
him very strongly on the situation that he had put himself in, and had
a letter fom his lawyer telling me in future to put everything in
writing to Conor, to which I replied that I would not consider
contacting Conor in any form. To follow this up I would suggest
reading ‘The Road to McCarthy’ by Pete McCarthy published by Hodder &
Stoughton, where the author visits Morocco.
Since setting up The Nobiliary Fraternity of the Nia Nasc we have
raised considerable sums of money for charities. The main beneficiary
at first was Marie Curie Cancer Care, with small sums to Scottish
music societies. Three years ago we heard of a new charity being set
up The Children’s Hospice Association of Scotland, CHAS and my wife
and I went to visit their first home in Kinross and talk to the
organisers and were very impressed and moved. This home takes
terminally ill children with their families for their final weeks, and
looks after all of them through the funeral and bereavment–they also
give respite care–and we decided to make this our main charity. They
now have another home at Loch Lomond. The website is http://www.chas.org.uk/
for futher information.
We have given several donations, and new members make out their
entrance cheque to the charity. A member in South Africa had
buttonieres and cufflinks made as a donation and sales go direct to
CHAS.
The name Nia Nasc translated as golden chain, and this is named in
memory of the warrior elite of the Celts who wore a golden chain over
their armour. Why the golden chain ? Very simply it was both status
and portable currency – a link could be removed and used like golden
sovereigns in later times. We had a talk at one of our annual lunches
at Borthwick Castle by Dr Alison Sheridan of the Museum of Scotland on
this subject. There are paintings and engravings of warrors in armour
wearing a gold or silver chain. There is an excellent illustration of
a painting of a Welsh member of the Tudor Royal Bodyguard,
traditionally called Vaughn of Tretower, wearing about 4 ropes of
heavy chain round his neck and over his armour see page 34 in the book
Arms and Armour in England published by HM Stationary Office SBN 11
6701 35 8
Neither I nor any officers of the Nobilary Fraternity of the Nia Nasc
take any expences or running costs so all money raised goes to
charity. My position as ‘Guardian’ means that if a person of Princely
rank with the right motives shows interest, the committee will discuss
with me. Meantime, we carry on with our charitable work and
international friendships.
The Nobiliary Fraternity of the Nia Nasc is Celtic in concept, which
includes Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, Brittany and Northern
Italy. At present we concentrate our meetings and charities in
Scotland, because that is where I live, and because the wounds left by
Terence McCarthy in Ireland are still too painful,
A final word – The Gallowglass – I saw them in the St Patrick’s Day
parade in Atlanta, Georgia and they got a good cheer from the crowds.
The Gallowglass are an historical fact as a mercenary force from
Scotland to Ireland, but are to-day ceremonial only. No one has
anything to fear from this impressive group in their saffron kilts. In
a civilised society we use lawyers instead of swords to fight our
battles.
...
Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:02 pm
Guest
On Oct 9, 2:14 pm, barrassie <mckerrellofhillho... at (no spam) btinternet.com>
wrote:
Quote:
The Nobilary Fraternity of the Nia Nasc

Then it appeared
that there was another loss – the companionship, the working to-
gether. Could that be replaced in any way?
The answer was setting up a new fraternity, which is not an order, The
Nobiliary Fraternity  of the Nia Nasc, open to those of noble rank by
office or descent and named in memory of the gaelic warrior elite, who
wore a golden or silver chain or torque (nia nasc is gaelic for golden
chain). – no connection with Terence. Surely Terence McCarthy has not
done so much harm that we can’t use gaelic words?

Thank you for that summary which contained much information that was
new to me.
In response to your question though, I think that Terence McCarthy has
done so much harm that the taint also continues with the words
themselves (at least for some time) expeccially since the membership
of both groups appears to overlap. If on the other hand the same group
of people set up a society called "TMcC was a scoundrel and caused
Ireland and us personally much grief"... But thank you for giving us
the other side of this story.
Kind regards,
George Lucki
StephenP...
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:54 am
Guest
On 9 Oct, 21:14, barrassie <mckerrellofhillho... at (no spam) btinternet.com>
wrote:

Quote:
A final word – The Gallowglass – I saw them in the St Patrick’s Day
parade in Atlanta, Georgia and they got a good cheer from the crowds.
The Gallowglass are an historical fact as a mercenary force from
Scotland to Ireland, but are to-day ceremonial only. No one has
anything to fear from this impressive group in their saffron kilts. In
a civilised society we use lawyers instead of swords to fight our
battles.

Charles

In fairness most crowds would probably cheer Ronald McDonald if he was
wearing a shamrock on St Paddy’s Day.

The issues with the Gallowglass are twofold; 1) their previous
association with Terence McCarthy as his bodyguard and 2) that some
websites imply that the modern body is a direct continuation of the
original rather than a new organization.

Yours aye

Stephen
Sean J Murphy...
Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:16 am
Guest
Charles McKerrell alias barrassie wrote:

Quote:
The Nobilary Fraternity of the Nia Nasc

There have been some comments on rec heraldry which are ignorant –
probably my fault as I have never replied to put the record straight.
In 1980 I was contacted by a man called Terence McCarthy. He told me
that his father was The McCarthy Mor, and had passed the title to him.
He had ideas about reviving an ancient pre chivalric order, The Order
of the Niadh Nask. It would be charitable in aim, and those of high
rank in Ireland and further afield would be invited to join.. Every
year there would be an appeal for a named charity and all members
would be asked to give according to their means.. It seemed like an
admirable and interesting project. Before agreeing to help him I
checked with the Chief Herald. Yes the man was McCarthy Mor, Prince of
Desmond. The Order was set up and flourished and the annual donations
given to a named charity every year. In about 1982 he showed me a
letter from the Chief Herald of Ireland saying that he was entitled
to titles of the lands of McCarthy Mor. He gave titles to some friends
and others who had helped him. Then he had a letter from Burke’s
offering to sell the titles for him – again I saw the letter- but he
did not accept the offer. In 1989, I left Ireland to live in Scotland,
and had little contact after that. He came to visit in 1991, and my
wife and I had lunch with him in Belfast the following year, but
haven’t seen him since then. He had made good contacts in North
Anerica, and had a committee in Atlanta, and one in Canada and I heard
little, apart from the annual charity appeal which did well.
He had new and powerful friends and I believe travelled several times
to the States. In 1999 rumours started and the Chief Herald of Ireland
removed the courtesy recognition of McCarthy Mor, Prince of Desmond
and the coat of arms from Terence McCarthy. It was said that his
pedigree was flawed, and to quell the rumours I asked my wife, who has
had some success as a sleuth to check it out. To my disbelief she
confirmed that there was indeed a flaw in the pedigree. Was this an
old family paper that he had found in a trunk and assumed that it was
correct, or were any papers altered? He immeadiately left for Morocco
where he had a house, so sadly we drew our own conclusions. He left
behind a devastation of shock, hurt, anger and disbelief. He had taken
in the Chief Herald’s Office, the Irish Chiefs, the Taoiseach (Head
Government of Ireland) and many people on both sides of the Atlantic.
The Order of the Niadh Nask ceaed to exist from that minute, if it
ever had – a point of academic debate. Then it came to light that he
had been selling membership of the Order for a large amount of money
to Americans and also titles at a larger ammount of money. Most of the
‘title holders’ dropped their titles imeadiately, but some continue to
use them with the argument that at the time Terence McCarthy had
courtesy recognition as The McCarthy Mor, Prince of Desmond, I do not
agree as his recognition was through a pedigree that was was later
prove to be flawed. Terence McCarthy, during his ‘reign’ as McCarthy
Mor had done some good things for Ireland. He set up the Standing
Council of Irish Chiefs, he was a good ‘Chief’ to the McCarthy Clan,
he worked with Pier Felice Uberti and his wife Loredana on the ICOC,
and supported the Noble Society of Celts as Patron. The Noble Society
of Celts continues to flourish, and the ICOC is still organised by
Pier Felice and his wife Loredana. How sad that it was all done on a
flawed pedigree! How tragic was the backlash for Ireland.
Many Americans had paid considerable sums of money to belong to an
order that did not exist, many had bought titles that most of them
would not now wish to use, one had a stock of books selling one day,
unsaleable the next and left with a huge financial loss. Europeans
were not so badly hurt financialy, but still stunned. Then it appeared
that there was another loss – the companionship, the working to-
gether. Could that be replaced in any way?
The answer was setting up a new fraternity, which is not an order, The
Nobiliary Fraternity of the Nia Nasc, open to those of noble rank by
office or descent and named in memory of the gaelic warrior elite, who
wore a golden or silver chain or torque (nia nasc is gaelic for golden
chain). – no connection with Terence. Surely Terence McCarthy has not
done so much harm that we can’t use gaelic words?

My pedigree, questioned recently by one not familiar with Scottish
records can be verified back to the 15th century. It is written but
not proved that the descent came from Lochlan McCairhill, Roidamna
(the future King of Ulster), who fled from Ireland to Scotland after
loosing a battle c 1087, and I would be delighted if a researcher
could find the link! I have accepted ‘Bonds of Manrent’ (the wording
checked and approved at Lyon Office) from friends in different
countries who wish to have ties with Scotland. In days of old, they
could be called on to attack enemies – to-day we are more civilised,
all I expect is friendship and loyalty, which I give in return. In
former days Scottish Barons had the power of ‘Pit and Gallows’ but
this would not be allowed today.
A year after ‘the collapse’ I had a phone call from Terence McCarthy’s
younger brother Conor following an Easter charity Appeal sent me by
‘The McCarthy Mor’ He said that Terence had given him the title with
the Order of the Niadh Nask before he left for Morocco!!! I advised
him very strongly on the situation that he had put himself in, and had
a letter fom his lawyer telling me in future to put everything in
writing to Conor, to which I replied that I would not consider
contacting Conor in any form. To follow this up I would suggest
reading ‘The Road to McCarthy’ by Pete McCarthy published by Hodder &
Stoughton, where the author visits Morocco.
Since setting up The Nobiliary Fraternity of the Nia Nasc we have
raised considerable sums of money for charities. The main beneficiary
at first was Marie Curie Cancer Care, with small sums to Scottish
music societies. Three years ago we heard of a new charity being set
up The Children’s Hospice Association of Scotland, CHAS and my wife
and I went to visit their first home in Kinross and talk to the
organisers and were very impressed and moved. This home takes
terminally ill children with their families for their final weeks, and
looks after all of them through the funeral and bereavment–they also
give respite care–and we decided to make this our main charity. They
now have another home at Loch Lomond. The website is http://www.chas.org.uk/
for futher information.
We have given several donations, and new members make out their
entrance cheque to the charity. A member in South Africa had
buttonieres and cufflinks made as a donation and sales go direct to
CHAS.
The name Nia Nasc translated as golden chain, and this is named in
memory of the warrior elite of the Celts who wore a golden chain over
their armour. Why the golden chain ? Very simply it was both status
and portable currency – a link could be removed and used like golden
sovereigns in later times. We had a talk at one of our annual lunches
at Borthwick Castle by Dr Alison Sheridan of the Museum of Scotland on
this subject. There are paintings and engravings of warrors in armour
wearing a gold or silver chain. There is an excellent illustration of
a painting of a Welsh member of the Tudor Royal Bodyguard,
traditionally called Vaughn of Tretower, wearing about 4 ropes of
heavy chain round his neck and over his armour see page 34 in the book
Arms and Armour in England published by HM Stationary Office SBN 11
6701 35 8
Neither I nor any officers of the Nobilary Fraternity of the Nia Nasc
take any expences or running costs so all money raised goes to
charity. My position as ‘Guardian’ means that if a person of Princely
rank with the right motives shows interest, the committee will discuss
with me. Meantime, we carry on with our charitable work and
international friendships.
The Nobiliary Fraternity of the Nia Nasc is Celtic in concept, which
includes Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Cornwall, Brittany and Northern
Italy. At present we concentrate our meetings and charities in
Scotland, because that is where I live, and because the wounds left by
Terence McCarthy in Ireland are still too painful,
A final word – The Gallowglass – I saw them in the St Patrick’s Day
parade in Atlanta, Georgia and they got a good cheer from the crowds.
The Gallowglass are an historical fact as a mercenary force from
Scotland to Ireland, but are to-day ceremonial only. No one has
anything to fear from this impressive group in their saffron kilts. In
a civilised society we use lawyers instead of swords to fight our
battles.

Firstly I thank Charles McKerrell for his eventual response to queries I
have been putting here for some years. Of course endeavouring to prolong
Terence MacCarthy's bogus Niadh Nask under a new name such as Nia Nasc
is wrongheaded to say the least, and given the earlier disappearance of
funds, continuing to collect for charity is extremely imprudent, again
to say the least. I must say that in general I find the response partial
and self-serving. For example, Mr McKerrell writes:

'In 1980 I was contacted by a man called Terence McCarthy. He told me
that his father was The McCarthy Mor, and had passed the title to him.
He had ideas about reviving an ancient pre chivalric order, The Order of
the Niadh Nask. . . . . . In 1989, I left Ireland to live in Scotland,
and had little contact after that. He [Terence MacCarthy] came to visit
in 1991, and my wife and I had lunch with him in Belfast the following
year, but haven’t seen him since then.'

Among the many documents I secured from the National Library of Ireland
under the Freedom of Information Act is the following testimonial as to
MacCarthy's status as MacCarthy Mór signed by Mr McKerrell on 25 August
1998:

'TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN

'I The Much Honoured Charles James Mure McKerrell of Hillhouse, 17th
Head of the Name, of Magdalene House, Lochmaben, Dumfriesshire,
Scotland, hereby declare that I have known Terence Francis McCarthy, The
MacCarthy Mor, Prince of Desmond, since 1978 when we were both members
of a Monarchist and Heraldic Club at the Queen's University, Belfast.

'To my knowledge he succeeded his father in the title of MacCarthy Mor,
Prince of Desmond, on August 5th 1980, since which date he has been
exclusively known under that designation. The current MacCarthy Mor
acted as a witness to a Bond of Manrent issued by me to Dr John E
McLennan on November 25th 1980, and subsequently, on June 20th 1982,
witnessed a Warrant by which I appointed and confirmed a Tartan for my
House. This latter instrument was duly recorded in the Books of the
Court of The Right Honourable The Lord Lyon King of Arms by Islay
Herald, Lyon Clerk and Keeper of the Records.

'Witness my hand and seal this the 25th day of August 1998.

'McKerrell of Hillhouse (seal)'

In that month of August 1998 sensible posters here on rec.heraldry were
already in the throes of challenging MacCarthy's royal claims and the
validity of the Niadh Nask, some receiving abuse and legal threats as a
result. Meanwhile, Mr McKerrell and others had joined the last ditch
efforts to shore up Terence's preposterous cyber-kingdom, even to the
extent of penning statements which they could not possibly have entirely
believed, and which they clearly now would prefer to forget.

The sheer weight of such testimonials and other documentation being
showered on the Office of the Chief Herald by Terence MacCarthy resulted
in the office's reluctant investigation effectively running out of steam
by late 1998, until I kick-started it back to life by issuing a signed
report in June 1999. Again, statements by Cecil R Humphery-Smith and
others that I only became involved after Terence's derecognition as
chief in July 1998 are utterly false. Ancient history I know, but
history has a habit of repeating itself, as can be seen from the massive
thread relating to Mr McKerrell's 'bondsman' James Shortt, 'Baron
Castleshort', at
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=104888/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html

Sean Murphy
The Niadh Nask
http://homepage.eircom.net/%7Eseanjmurphy/chiefs/niadhnask.htm
 
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