I've read most of Pete Ramey's site but just found this today:

http://hoofrehab.com/jessica.htm

cindi wrote:
I've read most of Pete Ramey's site but just found this today:

http://hoofrehab.com/jessica.htm

Since somebody recently said this can't be fixed... The section on
attaching frog support with a shoe and how that doesn't continue to
provide frog support for very long is exactly what I've said on this
group about what happened to Rain.

Interesting. I also note that he says

"Let the horse be the judge and use the pads and boots for any situation
that causes discomfort or possible bruising."

which is a lot closer to my position than to that of rabid barefoot
advocates: you do not leave a horse in discomfort.

Cindi typed

I've read most of Pete Ramey's site but just found this today:

http://hoofrehab.com/jessica.htm

Um, I think the point here, is good trim. Farriers who apply shoes to horses
also trim before applying the forementioned. Some of them do a great trim
and some not so much. Same goes for bare foot trimmers.

Of course a good trim is needed in any case. But actually, the point
of this article is that a nailed on shoe cannot relieve the
compromised laminae of the stress because shoes cause the walls to
bear most of the weight - known as peripheral loading - and in a
sinker, the walls are not attached very well and should be relieved by
allowing the horse to use other structures for weight bearing.

Bare foot trimming may save some horses, applying shoes many have saved
others. My horse was saved by having his tendons cut. He needed immediate
action if he was to keep living. His shoes were pulled because the vet
recommended applying styro foam pads to relieve the pressure on the hoofwall
and the coffin bone. Trimming alone didn't cut it for him. In each
individual horse it depends the degrees of rotation and the sinking of the
coffin bone.

No, he rotated and was sinking, I think it is pretty clear from the Feb to
March films. At the time the March rads were taken, the vet felt the horse
was 2mm from becoming a true "sinker" ie, the coffin bone piercing the sole
of the hoof.

Everybody else in the world would prefer not to cut tendons. It is a salvage
procedure. It works in some instances. If I had waited to see if a barefoot
trim would work, the horse's coffin bone would have pierced the sole of his
hoof, and it would have been all over.

I don't regret having the tendons
cut, in fact given the same set of circumstances (rotating and sinking), I
would still have it done. As far as pain management, the release of the
tendon on the bone was amazing. The horse didn't have the need to shuffle
from one foot to the other, as is the case for many horses with hoof pain..

PS His heels were appropriate for his foot size.

When you say "almost ground parallel," you need to specify on the
positive side.  I don't think any horse is going to be comfortable or
sound forever with even a slight negative angle, something that is being
called "reverse founder" apparently due to the increased recognition of
how common it is I guess.

Also, I am told there are some horses who are not comfotable at parallel
and must be maintained at a small positive angle to be comfortable in
the work.  Trial and error.

The heel height dictates
the angle of the coffin bone with the ground, and ALL horses,
regardless of how big their feet are, need coffin bones that are
almost ground parallel, or that are ground parallel.

Bare foot trimming may save some horses, applying shoes many have saved
others. My horse was saved by having his tendons cut. He needed immediate
action if he was to keep living. His shoes were pulled because the vet
recommended applying styro foam pads to relieve the pressure on the
hoofwall
and the coffin bone. Trimming alone didn't cut it for him. In each
individual horse it depends the degrees of rotation and the sinking of
the
coffin bone.

I don't want to say anything mean or hurtful, but didn't he then
colic? And does that mean colic and die?

More and more people are
deciding that the whole health of the horse is related to those feet
functioning properly. I am very sorry for your loss (if that's what
happened) and there is no way I'd want to minimize it or make light of
i>t -it's awful, period.

No, he rotated and was sinking, I think it is pretty clear from the Feb
to
March films. At the time the March rads were taken, the vet felt the
horse
was 2mm from becoming a true "sinker" ie, the coffin bone piercing the
sole
of the hoof.

My horse was sinking straight down with no rotation. The DDFT is
thought to be what's pulling the coffin bone away from the hoof wall,
from the tip, back.

Everybody else in the world would prefer not to cut tendons. It is a
salvage
procedure. It works in some instances. If I had waited to see if a
barefoot
trim would work, the horse's coffin bone would have pierced the sole of
his
hoof, and it would have been all over.

I'm not sure you can predict that for sure, or with a different
(better?) trim, but all that aside, coffin bone penetration is no
longer a death sentence.

All the big name barefoot folks have cured
many, many cases of that, each. Most even turn the horse out on many
acres of land and let them run around "naturally" with their coffin
bones penetrated. The movement speeds the healing. You can find case
after case of coffin bone penetration with no pain, because the two
conditions (trim, removal of the causative circumstances). I am pretty
sure we will one day find out that we can tell if the trim is right
and if the initial insult is removed simply from whether or not the
rotation stops. Since your horse's rotation did not stop, I would say
one or both conditions were not met. A lot of barefoot folk agree
with me; I do know it's still a fringe statement.

I don't regret having the tendons
cut, in fact given the same set of circumstances (rotating and sinking),
I
would still have it done. As far as pain management, the release of the
tendon on the bone was amazing. The horse didn't have the need to shuffle
from one foot to the other, as is the case for many horses with hoof
pain.

A good trim will do that too. You can read about Rain, my sinker,
after her first "barefoot trim":
http://www.allisonacres.org/rainfeet.html
She trotted for the first time in a year after that trim, and I mean
right after, and cantered the next day.

PS His heels were appropriate for his foot size.

Cadaver study after cadaver study, as well as study of live animals,
have shown that appropriate heel height does not vary more than a tiny
tiny bit, among any breed, draft to pony. The heel height dictates
the angle of the coffin bone with the ground, and ALL horses,
regardless of how big their feet are, need coffin bones that are
almost ground parallel, or that are ground parallel. In a larger
foot, the structures are all larger, but the appropriate angles are no
different.