On Jul 4, 5:20 pm, Thanatos <atro... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:
In article <cqhs64dgap98jik959pjjsh57uau4cm... at (no spam) 4ax.com>,
 Danny Schorr <. at (no spam) .> wrote:

I have to say, having perused several film scores by various composers--
Williams, Goldsmith, Horner, etc.-- these guys may be geniuses as
composers but their handwriting is atrocious. They must drive their
orchestrators nuts, especially considering the time pressures involved
with film music.

The very best, of course, orchestrate(d) their own music...

On Jul 4, 11:23 am, Thanatos <atro... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:
It definitely means repeat.  I could mean repeat the first measure in
the second measure, but that would only cll for a sign that looks like
a percentage symbol: % (except with dots instead of circles.

What I think you have here is a 2 measure phrase that the composer
wished to repeat a few times.  If you look ahead in the score, are the
next measures blank in the harp?  Or are there numbers in parentheses
between bars to indicate how many times he wants this figure to
repeat?

This is a shorthand Goldsmith used for his copyist.  It really doesn't
matter how it looks on the score as long as it's right in the part for
the recording session!

Hope this helps.



I have a copy of Jerry Goldsmith's handwritten score to ALIEN and
there's a recurring bit of notation that I can't figure out. Wondering
if anyone knows what it is.

I scanned example and posted it here:

http://homepage.mac.com/btr1701/PhotoAlbum14.html

It's the harp line below the percussion which is enclosed in what look
like repeat brackets with a large B|S in the middle of it. It's not a
repeat-- none of the other instruments are repeating those two
measures-- and I've never seen B|S notated in a score before. This sort
of thing occurs in various places for various instruments throughout the
score.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

scene better than what Goldsmith eventually wrote for the movie so he
bought the rights and kept it in

On 4 jul, 17:53, "Steve Latham" <llat... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:

I think it is probably "Bis" though, which means repeat - I think the
word
literally translates from German to "twice". Though I imagine with film,
and
the need to stretch or condense passages to fit timings, it could mean
"repeat until next cue" or something to that effect.

For what it's worth: "bis" exists in German, but means "until". The
"bis" meaning "twice" is Latin. So, this is indeed a very nice
explanation: repeat (e.g. twice, 'bis') until ('bis') the next cue.
...

I guess I need some sleep.

Just to back up the observations of Thanatos on Goldsmith's score for
"Aliens," I interviewed JG more than a decade after the Ridley Scott
switcheroo episode, and he was still smarting from it.(But - typically
- Goldsmith expressed it in the most professional and understated
manner.) He mentioned the 'premiere surprise' as well as the various
patches and substitutes - not only the "Freud" track but also the
Hanson "Romantic" Symphony addition - as substitutions caused by last-
minute editing decisions on the part of the director.

A bit of speculation In Scott's defense - He was probably working like
a maniac to get the film in release shape at the behest of the studio
suits, and didn't feel that he had time to go back to Goldsmith for a
scoring edit job. Scott did go out of his way to praise Goldsmith's
score in his commentary on an "Alien" DVD release, so he doubtless
recognized A.) He had wronged Goldsmith and B.) Goldsmith was a
superior grade musical talent. It's a shame that no amended
'Director's Cut' of "Alien" has emerged with the right Goldsmith music
in all the intended placements.

On Jul 4, 11:23 am, Thanatos <atro... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:

It definitely means repeat. I could mean repeat the first measure in
the second measure, but that would only cll for a sign that looks like
a percentage symbol: % (except with dots instead of circles.

What I think you have here is a 2 measure phrase that the composer
wished to repeat a few times. If you look ahead in the score, are the
next measures blank in the harp?

On Jul 5, 5:42 pm, "Beth/David (26D)" <dshermanmu... at (no spam) nyc.rr.com
wrote:
On Jul 4, 11:23 am, Thanatos <atro... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:
It definitely means repeat.  I could mean repeat the first measure in
the second measure, but that would only cll for a sign that looks like
a percentage symbol: % (except with dots instead of circles.

What I think you have here is a 2 measure phrase that the composer
wished to repeat a few times.  If you look ahead in the score, are the
next measures blank in the harp?  Or are there numbers in parentheses
between bars to indicate how many times he wants this figure to
repeat?

But you wouldn't indicate that with "bis"; you'd indicate that with
the "repeat the bar/figure/vamp" sign, which is a raised dot, a slash,
and a dot on the line (like a tilted "divided by" sign), in each
repeated bar -- you can repeat a two-bar figure by putting that mark,
with two slashes, across a barline.

In article
f34baeed-d500-4348-9356-2ec40a53b5ad at (no spam) c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:

On Jul 5, 5:42 pm, "Beth/David (26D)" <dshermanmu... at (no spam) nyc.rr.com
wrote:
On Jul 4, 11:23 am, Thanatos <atro... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:
It definitely means repeat. I could mean repeat the first measure in
the second measure, but that would only cll for a sign that looks like
a percentage symbol: % (except with dots instead of circles.

What I think you have here is a 2 measure phrase that the composer
wished to repeat a few times. If you look ahead in the score, are the
next measures blank in the harp? Or are there numbers in parentheses
between bars to indicate how many times he wants this figure to
repeat?

But you wouldn't indicate that with "bis"; you'd indicate that with
the "repeat the bar/figure/vamp" sign, which is a raised dot, a slash,
and a dot on the line (like a tilted "divided by" sign), in each
repeated bar -- you can repeat a two-bar figure by putting that mark,
with two slashes, across a barline.

Anyone happen to know how to make that symbol with the Finale software?

"Thanatos" <atropos at (no spam) mac.com> wrote in message
news:atropos-3B6D3E.21184605072008 at (no spam) news.giganews.com...
In article
f34baeed-d500-4348-9356-2ec40a53b5ad at (no spam) c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:

On Jul 5, 5:42 pm, "Beth/David (26D)" <dshermanmu... at (no spam) nyc.rr.com
wrote:
On Jul 4, 11:23 am, Thanatos <atro... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:
It definitely means repeat. I could mean repeat the first measure in
the second measure, but that would only cll for a sign that looks like
a percentage symbol: % (except with dots instead of circles.

What I think you have here is a 2 measure phrase that the composer
wished to repeat a few times. If you look ahead in the score, are the
next measures blank in the harp? Or are there numbers in parentheses
between bars to indicate how many times he wants this figure to
repeat?

But you wouldn't indicate that with "bis"; you'd indicate that with
the "repeat the bar/figure/vamp" sign, which is a raised dot, a slash,
and a dot on the line (like a tilted "divided by" sign), in each
repeated bar -- you can repeat a two-bar figure by putting that mark,
with two slashes, across a barline.

Anyone happen to know how to make that symbol with the Finale software?

In Finale PrintMusic ...
Select the Staff tool.
Select the measure you want the symbol to appear in.
Click Staff > Apply Alternate Notation > One-Bar Repeat; click OK

"Thanatos" <atro... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote in message

news:atropos-BC0A78.20023505072008 at (no spam) news.giganews.com...





In article
5bbc0644-b883-4671-a62d-3c66d6cf2... at (no spam) d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
 "Beth/David (26D)" <dshermanmu... at (no spam) nyc.rr.com> wrote:

On Jul 4, 11:23 am, Thanatos <atro... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:

It definitely means repeat. I could mean repeat the first measure in
the second measure, but that would only cll for a sign that looks like
a percentage symbol: % (except with dots instead of circles.

Yeah, I've seen those in this score, too, and I know what they mean.
This is evidently something different.

What I think you have here is a 2 measure phrase that the composer
wished to repeat a few times. If you look ahead in the score, are the
next measures blank in the harp?

Yes, as a matter of fact, they are. Although it's hard to tell what that
means in this case, since Goldsmith doesn't write in full measure rests..
If an instrument isn't playing in a particular passage, he leaves the
measures blank as a matter of course (probably because writing rests by
hand is tedious), so I don't know if the measures are blank because the
harp is resting following the Bis or if the Bis indicates that the harp
should be repeating those measures in the blank spaces.

If you look at the bottom of the page, you will see bars 59 and 60 are
bracketed, suggesting that the BIS refers to the whole instrumentation of
that passage and is just placed squarely in the middle of the page.

Bars 61 ff. then follow on.

Although bis means twice,  I should think that here it is probably used to
mean repeat as required depending on timing.

I agree. I'd love to see the movie with the music as intended.

I also
think Goldsmith original Main Title works much better than the
minimalist music in the film, with its hooting and moaning.

In article
5bbc0644-b883-4671-a62d-3c66d6cf2705 at (no spam) d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
"Beth/David (26D)" <dshermanmusic at (no spam) nyc.rr.com> wrote:

On Jul 4, 11:23 am, Thanatos <atro... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:

It definitely means repeat. I could mean repeat the first measure in
the second measure, but that would only cll for a sign that looks like
a percentage symbol: % (except with dots instead of circles.

Yeah, I've seen those in this score, too, and I know what they mean.
This is evidently something different.

What I think you have here is a 2 measure phrase that the composer
wished to repeat a few times. If you look ahead in the score, are the
next measures blank in the harp?

Yes, as a matter of fact, they are. Although it's hard to tell what that
means in this case, since Goldsmith doesn't write in full measure rests.
If an instrument isn't playing in a particular passage, he leaves the
measures blank as a matter of course (probably because writing rests by
hand is tedious), so I don't know if the measures are blank because the
harp is resting following the Bis or if the Bis indicates that the harp
should be repeating those measures in the blank spaces.

In article
5bbc0644-b883-4671-a62d-3c66d6cf2... at (no spam) d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
"Beth/David (26D)" <dshermanmu... at (no spam) nyc.rr.com> wrote:

On Jul 4, 11:23 am, Thanatos <atro... at (no spam) mac.com> wrote:
It definitely means repeat. I could mean repeat the first measure in
the second measure, but that would only cll for a sign that looks like
a percentage symbol: % (except with dots instead of circles.

Yeah, I've seen those in this score, too, and I know what they mean.
This is evidently something different.

What I think you have here is a 2 measure phrase that the composer
wished to repeat a few times. If you look ahead in the score, are the
next measures blank in the harp?

Yes, as a matter of fact, they are. Although it's hard to tell what that
means in this case, since Goldsmith doesn't write in full measure rests.
If an instrument isn't playing in a particular passage, he leaves the
measures blank as a matter of course (probably because writing rests by
hand is tedious), so I don't know if the measures are blank because the
harp is resting following the Bis or if the Bis indicates that the harp
should be repeating those measures in the blank spaces.

Thanatos wrote:


I agree. I'd love to see the movie with the music as intended.

That would be great. They did it with Jerry Fielding's score for GETAWAY.
At least the ALIEN DVD (not the latter so called "director's cut") does
have an isolated score track.

I also
think Goldsmith original Main Title works much better than the
minimalist music in the film, with its hooting and moaning.

I have to disagree there. Goldsmith's re-done Main Title also works
extraordinarily well, the scene is among my favorite Main Title sequences.
I know Goldsmith didn't care all that much for his redone Main Title
himself, but it's truly creepy space music. I like both Main Titles; hard
to say which I like better, but it's not necessarily Goldsmith's first one.

Thanatos wrote:


I agree. I'd love to see the movie with the music as intended.

That would be great. They did it with Jerry Fielding's score for GETAWAY.
At least the ALIEN DVD (not the latter so called "director's cut") does
have an isolated score track.

I also
think Goldsmith original Main Title works much better than the
minimalist music in the film, with its hooting and moaning.

I have to disagree there. Goldsmith's re-done Main Title also works
extraordinarily well, the scene is among my favorite Main Title sequences.
I know Goldsmith didn't care all that much for his redone Main Title
himself, but it's truly creepy space music. I like both Main Titles; hard
to say which I like better, but it's not necessarily Goldsmith's first one.