I am pleased to announce the republication (free download, as always) of
Paul Prehn's Catch-as-Catch-Can wrestling manual Scientific Methods of
Wrestling.

Download from:http://www.lulu.com/content/2820024

Blurb:
Prehn, a wrestling great from yesteryear, now is little remembered
except by the odd wrestling historian.

Prehn was one of the early 20th Century "Big Names." A member of the
Wrestling Hall of Fame, he participated in numerous well-billed
wrestling matches, both as a G.I., and as a civilian. He dedicated a
good portion of his life to promoting Wrestling and the manly arts
including acting as a professional coach for collegiate wrestling with
the Illini, successfully placing in top 10 matches such as the 1928
NCAA Collegiate Championship. As a G.I., Sergent Prehn taught
Wrestling as an assistant coach at Camp Dodge in 1917 and won the 1918
Middle Weight Inter-Allied Games championship. He was, for a time, the
Chairman of the Illinois Athletic Commission. Prehn was elected to the
office of President of the National Boxing Association in 1928 which
was then induced to add professional wrestling to the list of the
organizations responsibilities.

Among his other important contributions is this wrestling manual.
Being from 1925, it includes many techniques and some advice which is
now illegal or considered foul play, such as the use of arm-bars and
neck-cranks. All par for the day, but forgotten by most and now, but
with the ascendancy of MMA and grappling, is now being rediscovered by
wrestling aficionados.

Packed with more than 70 photographs, this manual, faithfully
transcribed by Kirk Lawson, is one of the best Catch-as-Catch-Can
"Scientific Wrestling" manuals of the early 20th Century and is an
indispensable reference for modern wrestlers and historians alike.

Be sure to rate it on Lulu's rating system!

Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk

On Jun 27, 3:35 pm, Rabid Weasel Lawson <law... at (no spam) NO327SPAM+dayton.ne
wrote:
I am pleased to announce the republication (free download, as always) of
Paul Prehn's Catch-as-Catch-Can wrestling manual Scientific Methods of
Wrestling.

Download from:http://www.lulu.com/content/2820024

Blurb:
Prehn, a wrestling great from yesteryear, now is little remembered
except by the odd wrestling historian.

Prehn was one of the early 20th Century "Big Names." A member of the
Wrestling Hall of Fame, he participated in numerous well-billed
wrestling matches, both as a G.I., and as a civilian. He dedicated a
good portion of his life to promoting Wrestling and the manly arts
including acting as a professional coach for collegiate wrestling with
the Illini, successfully placing in top 10 matches such as the 1928
NCAA Collegiate Championship. As a G.I., Sergent Prehn taught
Wrestling as an assistant coach at Camp Dodge in 1917 and won the 1918
Middle Weight Inter-Allied Games championship. He was, for a time, the
Chairman of the Illinois Athletic Commission. Prehn was elected to the
office of President of the National Boxing Association in 1928 which
was then induced to add professional wrestling to the list of the
organizations responsibilities.

Among his other important contributions is this wrestling manual.
Being from 1925, it includes many techniques and some advice which is
now illegal or considered foul play, such as the use of arm-bars and
neck-cranks. All par for the day, but forgotten by most and now, but
with the ascendancy of MMA and grappling, is now being rediscovered by
wrestling aficionados.

Packed with more than 70 photographs, this manual, faithfully
transcribed by Kirk Lawson, is one of the best Catch-as-Catch-Can
"Scientific Wrestling" manuals of the early 20th Century and is an
indispensable reference for modern wrestlers and historians alike.

Be sure to rate it on Lulu's rating system!

Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk

So when did your interest in catch start kirk?

I mean, why catch? I
got guys obsessed with it, they tell me how it's all catch and bjj is
bullshit,

and i tell em i dont care where it comes from, then i got
guys here who think grappling is bjj, and if some move isnt, it's
bullshit.

I tell em all i was all over both sides and labels are
stupid.

That it's fighting, but some still come in in singlets and talk
about how farmer burns would maim rickson.

Then there are the judo guys
all over the net.

You are more cerebral than the primates i train, so i ask.Why catch?
Whats the obsession? When did it start?

Would you care about an old bjj manual?

and old judo one?

an old grappling one with no name on it?

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:06:09 -0700, SPORTfighter wrote:

On Jun 27, 3:35 pm, Rabid Weasel Lawson
law... at (no spam) NO327SPAM+dayton.ne
wrote:
I am pleased to announce the republication (free download, as
always) of
Paul Prehn's Catch-as-Catch-Can wrestling manual Scientific
Methods of
Wrestling.

Download from:http://www.lulu.com/content/2820024

Blurb:
Prehn, a wrestling great from yesteryear, now is little
remembered
except by the odd wrestling historian.

Prehn was one of the early 20th Century "Big Names." A
member of the
Wrestling Hall of Fame, he participated in numerous
well-billed
wrestling matches, both as a G.I., and as a civilian. He
dedicated a
good portion of his life to promoting Wrestling and the
manly arts
including acting as a professional coach for collegiate
wrestling with
the Illini, successfully placing in top 10 matches such as
the 1928
NCAA Collegiate Championship. As a G.I., Sergent Prehn
taught
Wrestling as an assistant coach at Camp Dodge in 1917 and
won the 1918
Middle Weight Inter-Allied Games championship. He was, for
a time, the
Chairman of the Illinois Athletic Commission. Prehn was
elected to the
office of President of the National Boxing Association in
1928 which
was then induced to add professional wrestling to the list
of the
organizations responsibilities.

Among his other important contributions is this wrestling
manual.
Being from 1925, it includes many techniques and some advice
which is
now illegal or considered foul play, such as the use of
arm-bars and
neck-cranks. All par for the day, but forgotten by most and
now, but
with the ascendancy of MMA and grappling, is now being
rediscovered by
wrestling aficionados.

Packed with more than 70 photographs, this manual,
faithfully
transcribed by Kirk Lawson, is one of the best
Catch-as-Catch-Can
"Scientific Wrestling" manuals of the early 20th Century and
is an
indispensable reference for modern wrestlers and historians
alike.

Be sure to rate it on Lulu's rating system!

Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk

So when did your interest in catch start kirk?

WMA, really. Nothing more than that. Do you recall sending me
info on
Catch?


I mean, why catch? I
got guys obsessed with it, they tell me how it's all catch and
bjj is
bullshit,

They're wrong. Lots of good stuff in BJJ. There may be a lot of
cross-over and parallel evolution but to dismiss BJJ is silly and
ethnocentric.


and i tell em i dont care where it comes from, then i got
guys here who think grappling is bjj, and if some move isnt,
it's
bullshit.

They're just as wrong and ethnocentric.


I tell em all i was all over both sides and labels are
stupid.

Absolutely correct.


That it's fighting, but some still come in in singlets and talk
about how farmer burns would maim rickson.

Tell them that Bruce Lee would kick both their butts. And it's
*sooo*
provable too, you know, 'cuz both Bruce and Martin are, like,
DEAD.
That sort of speculation is foolish and largely the domain of
wanabees.


Then there are the judo guys
all over the net.

I'm one of them. I do Judo too. 'Course the club I train at is
chock
full of Wrestlers doing Judo. Got about 5 or 6 of them so it's
really
good for me. I keep hoping the less experienced ones never learn
to stop
leading with their heads or tucking their chins.


You are more cerebral than the primates i train, so i ask.Why
catch?
Whats the obsession? When did it start?

Really, it's just the WMA angle for me. I got loads of respect
for
grappling from every tradition, but I'm a WMA advocate and so I'm
trying
to do my little bit to promote and give to the community, etc.


Would you care about an old bjj manual?

It might. Does it have an importance to WMA? Has it been widely
distributed already? No fun to republish a book that you find in
every
third library and propping up half the uneven table legs in the
country.


and old judo one?

Maybe. Same as above. On that note, a collector of antique
Judo/Jiu
Jitsu manuals has kinda hinted that he would be willing to share
some of
his massive library with me. I'm not sure what to do because a
lot of
them, though cool in their own right, really aren't all that
important to
WMA (though a few are such as those published by the Robert K.
Fox
publishing corp.).


an old grappling one with no name on it?

Is it written in english?

I'm not particularly ethnocentric for *my own personal* studies,
but I'm
trying to be more discriminating when it comes to what I go to
the effort
of finding, acquiring, and republishing. It takes a significant
investment of time and effort (and often money if I can't borrow
a copy or
have it provided some other way).

Notice that the republishings aren't restricted to CaCC. I have
antique
Boxing manuals, Sword manuals, and a stick manual. There's
another stick
manual that I've been trying to locate to republish by Arturo
Bonafont.
It's very rare and written in Spanish (published in Argentina).
I managed
to locate one copy once but it was going for something like $350.
I just
couldn't justify it to myself at that price.

I've also republished a Gatka manual too, though not strictly (or
even
loosely) "Western."

They're all up there on the Lulu site.

Tell your CaCC obsessed students to come download copies and to
tell their
friends to do so too. I've currently got 3 antique wrestling
manuals up
and will, within the next 12 months or so, put up Frank Gotch's
"Wrestling
and How to Train" CaCC manual. I don't think it's as high
quality
information as Prehn's but, on the other hand, it *IS* by the
wrestling
legend Frank Gotch!

WMA, really. Nothing more than that. Do you recall sending me info on
Catch?
No, should I?

I mean, why catch? I
got guys obsessed with it, they tell me how it's all catch and bjj is
bullshit,

They're wrong. Lots of good stuff in BJJ. There may be a lot of
cross-over and parallel evolution but to dismiss BJJ is silly and
ethnocentric.

and i tell em i dont care where it comes from, then i got
guys here who think grappling is bjj, and if some move isnt, it's
bullshit.

They're just as wrong and ethnocentric.

I tell em all i was all over both sides and labels are
stupid.

Absolutely correct.

That it's fighting, but some still come in in singlets and talk
about how farmer burns would maim rickson.

Tell them that Bruce Lee would kick both their butts. And it's *sooo*
provable too, you know, 'cuz both Bruce and Martin are, like, DEAD.
That sort of speculation is foolish and largely the domain of wanabees.

Then there are the judo guys
all over the net.

I'm one of them. I do Judo too. 'Course the club I train at is chock
full of Wrestlers doing Judo. Got about 5 or 6 of them so it's really
good for me. I keep hoping the less experienced ones never learn to stop
leading with their heads or tucking their chins.

You are more cerebral than the primates i train, so i ask.Why catch?
Whats the obsession? When did it start?

Really, it's just the WMA angle for me. I got loads of respect for
grappling from every tradition, but I'm a WMA advocate and so I'm trying
to do my little bit to promote and give to the community, etc.

Would you care about an old bjj manual?

It might. Does it have an importance to WMA? Has it been widely
distributed already? No fun to republish a book that you find in every
third library and propping up half the uneven table legs in the country.

and old judo one?

Maybe. Same as above. On that note, a collector of antique Judo/Jiu
Jitsu manuals has kinda hinted that he would be willing to share some of
his massive library with me. I'm not sure what to do because a lot of
them, though cool in their own right, really aren't all that important to
WMA (though a few are such as those published by the Robert K. Fox
publishing corp.).

an old grappling one with no name on it?

Is it written in english?

I'm not particularly ethnocentric for *my own personal* studies, but I'm
trying to be more discriminating when it comes to what I go to the effort
of finding, acquiring, and republishing. It takes a significant
investment of time and effort (and often money if I can't borrow a copy or
have it provided some other way).

Notice that the republishings aren't restricted to CaCC. I have antique
Boxing manuals, Sword manuals, and a stick manual. There's another stick
manual that I've been trying to locate to republish by Arturo Bonafont.
It's very rare and written in Spanish (published in Argentina). I managed
to locate one copy once but it was going for something like $350. I just
couldn't justify it to myself at that price.

I've also republished a Gatka manual too, though not strictly (or even
loosely) "Western."

They're all up there on the Lulu site.

Tell your CaCC obsessed students to come download copies and to tell their
friends to do so too. I've currently got 3 antique wrestling manuals up
and will, within the next 12 months or so, put up Frank Gotch's "Wrestling
and How to Train" CaCC manual. I don't think it's as high quality
information as Prehn's but, on the other hand, it *IS* by the wrestling
legend Frank Gotch!

Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk

WannabeSomeoneCares at (no spam) gmail.com wrote:



I am glad that Kirk doesn't have your kind of perversion

Hey derfus... you were shown the facts; but lying is for you. It's your
only hope.

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 12:16:22 -0700, WannabeSomeoneCares wrote:

Piss off thread troll.

I am glad that Kirk doesn't have your kind of perversion of mutilating
a baby's penis and then suck the baby's penis dry.

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:37:50 -0400, Mark Goldberg
msgoldberg at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote:

WannabeSomeoneCares at (no spam) gmail.com wrote:


I am glad that Kirk doesn't have your kind of perversion
Hey derfus... you were shown the facts; but lying is for you. It's your
only hope.

here's the facts you sick fuck. From a medical journal no less...

you're from a sick and diseased culture and religion. No wonder the
Muslims despise you. No... wait, everybody despises you. Not just
the Muslims.

Hey asshat... you, the trolling fag from the moutain with your

...I am more interested in proper fighting, not historical fighting.But
to each his own.
Every time i watch a NOVA episode on physics they start with newton
and gallileo and shit.They don't start NOVA's on the latest HIV
fighting into on how witch doctors used bleeding to get out
infections.
On a purely technical note, neither bjj or catch guys say it...but
truth is barring a few freaky guys that are mutants...most big thick
guys just cant adopt a bjj philosophy in mma and do well, as in
accepting bottom if need be.And the catch style just doenst do great
with 140 pound guys on 140 pound guys, the weight just isnt there to
control a guy under you who has bjj hips.Top fighter BJJers like a
mario sperry sure seems to have more a catch style than bjj, and any
little catch guys gonna spend a lot of time on bottom, an if hes lanky
develop a bjj type game.
\I had to read your post twice to figure out what WMA was, took too
long, lost interest...

you're from a sick and diseased culture and religion. No wonder the
Muslims despise you. No... wait, everybody despises you. Not just
the Muslims.

WMA, really. Nothing more than that. Do you recall sending me info on
Catch?
No, should I?

They probably already saw it, my catch guys i mean.

It just seems weird
when guys are into the history of a science, i mean being into the
silly false king fu type histories i get, even though it's lame.But
being interested in a science, where obvously it's progressed beyond
that point is weird.I mean in sciences things that work stay around,
they get better.It's almost religious the way my guys into old style
akward objects lifting.

On a purely technical note, neither bjj or catch guys say it...but
truth is barring a few freaky guys that are mutants...most big thick
guys just cant adopt a bjj philosophy in mma and do well, as in
accepting bottom if need be.And the catch style just doenst do great
with 140 pound guys on 140 pound guys, the weight just isnt there to
control a guy under you who has bjj hips.Top fighter BJJers like a
mario sperry sure seems to have more a catch style than bjj, and any
little catch guys gonna spend a lot of time on bottom, an if hes lanky
develop a bjj type game.

I had to read your post twice to figure out what WMA was,

took too long, lost interest...

SPORTfighter wrote:
...I am more interested in proper fighting, not historical fighting.But
to each his own.
Every time i watch a NOVA episode on physics they start with newton
and gallileo and shit.They don't start NOVA's on the latest HIV
fighting into on how witch doctors used bleeding to get out
infections.
On a purely technical note, neither bjj or catch guys say it...but
truth is barring a few freaky guys that are mutants...most big thick
guys just cant adopt a bjj philosophy in mma and do well, as in
accepting bottom if need be.And the catch style just doenst do great
with 140 pound guys on 140 pound guys, the weight just isnt there to
control a guy under you who has bjj hips.Top fighter BJJers like a
mario sperry sure seems to have more a catch style than bjj, and any
little catch guys gonna spend a lot of time on bottom, an if hes lanky
develop a bjj type game.
\I had to read your post twice to figure out what WMA was, took too
long, lost interest...

I always enjoy when you let loose with what you know, and especially
seemingly instinctively arrived at.

I have a friend, a mechancic- really a genius at fixing almost any
machine. He can't stand to read a book. Most any book. Maybe a reading
deficit problem. I'm not sure, but the guy can't learn from books. He
has to see it, do it, feel it, and he learns it.
The guy fixes MRI machines at two hospitals- he's got a contract to fix
the 'dunkin donuts' machines, since they're comuterized type things and
he, just knows it.

But he can't read a manual. It's too funny- I watch him figure out
something with his eyes, hands, doing it, and it gets done.

I'm not sure if you're all that similar to him, because you like to read
and do so quite a bit, if I remember, but I think you're way more
instinctive, hands on, and as such, you have a natural disdain for
second or third hand, when first hand gives you what you need.

But archives and archivists do serve a function in recording how things
were done, are done, and they do provide a record even if it can easily
be misused, fantasized over, indulged in, rather than learned from.

Mark

On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:57:36 -0700, SPORTfighter wrote:
WMA, really. Nothing more than that. Do you recall sending me info on
Catch?
No, should I?

Don't know why you would, I guess. You sent me a tape and some info on
Cecchini some years ago.

They probably already saw it, my catch guys i mean.

Really? It's a very rare text. I haven't seen a copy available on the
market and I had to borrow this one through Academic Loan.

It just seems weird
when guys are into the history of a science, i mean being into the
silly false king fu type histories i get, even though it's lame.But
being interested in a science, where obvously it's progressed beyond
that point is weird.I mean in sciences things that work stay around,
they get better.It's almost religious the way my guys into old style
akward objects lifting.

Seems to work reasonably well. But anyway, it's not *only* about results.
It's also about being able to form a connection with your culture and your
"cultural past."

On a purely technical note, neither bjj or catch guys say it...but
truth is barring a few freaky guys that are mutants...most big thick
guys just cant adopt a bjj philosophy in mma and do well, as in
accepting bottom if need be.And the catch style just doenst do great
with 140 pound guys on 140 pound guys, the weight just isnt there to
control a guy under you who has bjj hips.Top fighter BJJers like a
mario sperry sure seems to have more a catch style than bjj, and any
little catch guys gonna spend a lot of time on bottom, an if hes lanky
develop a bjj type game.

It's a kind of myth. There was no "one single style" of catch wrestling.
Catch wrestling had weight classes and *must* have had stylistic methods
adapted to the individual.

I had to read your post twice to figure out what WMA was,

Sorry. I figured the info on the Lulu site would be descriptive.

took too long, lost interest...

Vivance.

Peace favor your sword (IH),
Kirk