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Hobby Forum Index » Guns » Blackwater using cache of AK-47s (not semi auto...
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| James... |
 Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:54 pm |
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(sorry for posting an expired link, here is the article as published
in N&O)
Possible straw purchase ?
Regards,
James
Joseph Neff, Staff WriterComment on this story
The private military company Blackwater has found an unusual way to
skirt federal laws that prohibit private parties from buying automatic
weapons. Blackwater bought 17 Romanian AK-47s and 17 Bushmasters, gave
ownership of the guns to the Camden County sheriff and keeps most of
the guns at Blackwater's armory in Moyock.
Tiny Camden County -- population 9,271 -- is one of the most peaceful
in North Carolina. In the last 10 years, there have been two murders,
three robberies and seven rapes reported. The sheriff has just 19
deputies.
Sheriff Tony Perry said his department has never used the 17 AK-47s
outside of shooting practice at Blackwater. None of his 19 deputies
are qualified to use the AK-47s, Perry said, and his department's need
for automatic weapons is "very minimal."
In the summer of 2005, Blackwater CEO Gary Jackson signed two
agreements with Maj. Jon Worthington of the Sheriff's Office.
Worthington has worked as a firearms instructor for Blackwater.
"Blackwater has financed the purchase of 17 Romanian AK-47 rifles for
the Camden County Sheriff's Office for use by Sheriff's Office," the
agreement says. "The Camden County Sheriff's Office will have
unlimited access to these rifles for training and qualification, and
state of emergency use." Worthington and Jackson also signed an
agreement for the purchase of 17 Bushmaster XM15 E2S automatic rifles.
Why did Blackwater strike this deal with the Camden County sheriff?
"Because they needed guns, I imagine," Jackson said.
Jackson said Blackwater was a good corporate citizen that provided
equipment and training, often free, to local law enforcement.
Did Camden County need more automatic weapons than deputies?
"They are very well equipped," Jackson said.
Perry said he can't remember who came up with the idea for the weapons
deal. He said the county was trying to put together a SWAT team at the
time.
Not the best choice?
The AK-47 would be a poor choice of weapon for a SWAT team, said John
Gnagey, executive director of the National Tactical Officers
Association, the national organization of SWAT officers.
As a combat weapon, the AK-47 is too large and powerful for SWAT
teams, Gnagey said. It is rugged but relatively inaccurate.
"And there's the perception problem," Gnagey said. "Every terrorist
attacking the U.S. is armed with AK-47s. "
Most SWAT teams use the H&K MP5 submachine gun or the Bushmaster M4,
he said.
Under federal law, only government agencies -- military or law
enforcement -- are allowed to acquire and possess automatic weapons.
There is an exception for automatic weapons purchased before May 1986,
when the law went into effect.
Firearms dealers are allowed, under strict conditions, to acquire an
automatic weapon if they need to demonstrate the weapon to a police
department or other government agency interested in buying the weapon.
Under federal law, it is illegal for a person to receive or possess an
automatic weapon that is not registered to that person in the National
Firearms Registration and Transfer Record. The 34 weapons are
registered to the Camden County sheriff. Seventeen AK-47s and five
Bushmasters are stored and used at Blackwater. The other 12
Bushmasters are assigned to Camden County deputies, the sheriff said.
Weapons' use defended
Jackson, the Blackwater CEO, said he was not violating federal
firearms law.
"I don't believe so," Jackson said. "As long as I have contracts, I
can buy fully automatic weapons."
Jackson and Erik Prince, Blackwater's owner, said Blackwater used the
AK-47s in training to familiarize police officers or members of the
military with a foreign weapon that they might come across while
making an arrest or on a battlefield.
Blackwater may also use the AK-47s to train military personnel from
other countries who come to the United States for anti-terrorism
training funded by the State Department, Prince and Jackson said.
"If the contract tells us to, we do it," Jackson said.
The agreement between Blackwater and the Sheriff's Office could be an
illegal straw purchase, said Richard Myers, a law professor at the
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. A straw purchase, Myers
said, is when one person fills out the federal firearms registration
form to obtain a weapon for another person's use.
"I prosecuted several when I was with the U.S. attorney," Myers said.
"If I were Blackwater's attorney, I would be concerned about whether
this is a genuine purchase or a straw purchase."
Sheriff Perry said he did not consult a lawyer about the agreement
until recently, when the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and
Firearms and the FBI inquired about the arrangement. Last year two
former Blackwater employees pleaded guilty to federal firearms
violations. They were sentenced to probation on the condition that
they assist federal investigators.
Perry said his department was cooperating fully.
"We're not a target," Perry said. "We may be a victim in it."
joseph.neff <atsign>newsobserver.com
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| Bitsbucket... |
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:47 am |
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This is a very miss leading post, first of all ANYONE can LEGALLY possess a
FULL AUTO firearm as long as all requirements are met. (200.00 dollar tax
stamp from ATF, and background check, this is true of SILENCERS ALSO, along
with short barrel shotguns and rifles) Secondly the statement about having
had PURCHASED them before 84 is INCORRECT, they must have been manufactured
before 84, that is why they now cost so much, all that there are, are out
there now, now NEW manufacture for civilian purchace is prohibited, as far
as the rest of the article, I am not sure what Blackwater was trying to
accomplish. The whole article STINKS of LIBERALISM to me.....
If you don't know the Federal laws, along with the state codes for your
area, Google is YOUR friend!
I am employeed by a class 3 dealer and I am no lawyer, but I do know what we
can and can not sell!!!
"James" <james27613 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:g3rtvu$l3d$1 at (no spam) grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
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| David R.Birch... |
| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:55 am |
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Bitsbucket wrote:
# This is a very miss leading post, first of all ANYONE can LEGALLY
# possess a FULL AUTO firearm as long as all requirements are met.
# (200.00 dollar tax stamp from ATF, and background check, this is
# true of SILENCERS ALSO, along with short barrel shotguns and
# rifles) Secondly the statement about having had PURCHASED them
# before 84 is INCORRECT, they must have been manufactured before 84,
# that is why they now cost so much, all that there are, are out
# there now, now NEW manufacture for civilian purchace is prohibited,
# as far as the rest of the article, I am not sure what Blackwater
# was trying to accomplish. The whole article STINKS of LIBERALISM to
# me.....
#
# If you don't know the Federal laws, along with the state codes for
# your area, Google is YOUR friend!
#
# I am employeed by a class 3 dealer and I am no lawyer, but I do
# know what we can and can not sell!!!
#
# "James" <james27613 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
# news:g3rtvu$l3d$1 at (no spam) grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
I think the issue is that NEW NFA weapons can only be sold to police
agencies, so Blackwater bought them for a local police department with
the understanding that Blackwater would have access to them.
David
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| Zombywoof... |
| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:15 pm |
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On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 14:31:21 +0000 (UTC), Jim Yanik <jyanik at (no spam) kua.net>
wrote:
#"David R.Birch" <dbirch at (no spam) wi.rr.com> wrote in
#news:g4138m$6q3$1 at (no spam) grapevine.wam.umd.edu:
#
## Bitsbucket wrote:
## # This is a very miss leading post, first of all ANYONE can LEGALLY
## # possess a FULL AUTO firearm as long as all requirements are met.
## # (200.00 dollar tax stamp from ATF, and background check, this is
## # true of SILENCERS ALSO, along with short barrel shotguns and
## # rifles) Secondly the statement about having had PURCHASED them
## # before 84 is INCORRECT, they must have been manufactured before 84,
## # that is why they now cost so much, all that there are, are out
## # there now, now NEW manufacture for civilian purchace is prohibited,
## # as far as the rest of the article, I am not sure what Blackwater
## # was trying to accomplish. The whole article STINKS of LIBERALISM to
## # me.....
## #
## # If you don't know the Federal laws, along with the state codes for
## # your area, Google is YOUR friend!
## #
## # I am employeed by a class 3 dealer and I am no lawyer, but I do
## # know what we can and can not sell!!!
## #
## # "James" <james27613 at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
## # news:g3rtvu$l3d$1 at (no spam) grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
##
## I think the issue is that NEW NFA weapons can only be sold to police
## agencies, so Blackwater bought them for a local police department with
## the understanding that Blackwater would have access to them.
##
## David
#
#It's my understanding that CORPORATIONS could buy NEW full-auto weapons.
#The corporation must retain ownership.
#A left-over from the early union-busting days.
#
Wrong understanding. You could of course start a Corporation
Manufacturing Machine Guns for resale & keep a couple for your R&D,
but there is no way around the Pre-86 Ban for us lowly plebs.
See
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt
for all your whack-a-doodle NFA needs.
--
"Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites.
Moderation is for monks."
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| R.L. Horn... |
| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:07 am |
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On Sun, 29 Jun 2008 21:53:31 +0000 (UTC), Zombywoof <Zomby-Woof at (no spam) cox.net>
wrote:
# All-in-all more then likely it was a dodge,
Of course it was a dodge. But, was it illegal?
# What I don't understand is why Blackwater doesn't get itself the correct
# class of FFL and then just obtain all the fully automatic weapons they
# want for "demonstration" purposes.
It's not that simple. 27 CFR 479.105(d) states, in part:
"Applications to transfer more than one machine gun of a particular model to
a dealer must also establish the dealer's need for the quantity of samples
sought to be transferred."
My understanding is that you have to work at it to get two. Moreover, FFLs
must actively be in the business of marketing and selling guns.
# I'm quite sure the Sheriff would give them the LEO Demo Letter.
For 17 post-'86 demonstration samples? I don't see how that could possibly
work.
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Win a Fulton Armory AR-15 "Game Gun" while supporting RKBA.
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