"Matt" <matt at (no spam) THEMATTFELLA.XXXYYZ.COM> wrote in
message
news:qAF4k.12396$bk3.10971 at (no spam) fe127.usenetserver.com...
I claim that a deer can dodge a slug or bullet
after it is fired, and that deer survive fairly
often by doing this. How is this possible?

I will provide my answer in a few days.

Looking forward to the explanation! Do they
see the muzzle flash? 2000fps bullet and
a 100 yd shot--time of flight .15 seconds.
That's a pretty fast reaction time.

I hope you have a more plausible answer--it
would explain several misses I've had over the
years---wasn't my crappy shooting, the deer
stepped aside after I fired!

Have I convinced anyone?

BillM wrote:
"Matt" <matt at (no spam) THEMATTFELLA.XXXYYZ.COM> wrote in
message
news:qAF4k.12396$bk3.10971 at (no spam) fe127.usenetserver.com...
I claim that a deer can dodge a slug or bullet
after it is fired, and that deer survive fairly
often by doing this. How is this possible?

I will provide my answer in a few days.

Looking forward to the explanation! Do they
see the muzzle flash? 2000fps bullet and
a 100 yd shot--time of flight .15 seconds.
That's a pretty fast reaction time.

I hope you have a more plausible answer--it
would explain several misses I've had over the
years---wasn't my crappy shooting, the deer
stepped aside after I fired!




At 1560 fps, it takes a slug about 1/4 second to fly 100 yards, and
closer to 1/3 second to fly 125 yards. The time of flight is similar
for a scoped .44 Mag revolver at the outer limit of its range (say 75 to
90 yards), but the revolver will produce a bigger flash. For a .50 cal
muzzle loader, I expect a similar flight time at 125 to 160 yards, but a
somewhat smaller flash. I'm thinking that the flash from a
high-powered rifle is small enough that it is much harder for a deer to
see from 200 yards or more---also it is getting hard for the hunter to
detect a deer from that distance under dim light.

Have I convinced anyone?

 The slowest slug travels something
like 1300 fps, which is still faster than the speed of sound, but the
muzzle flash would get to a deer 50 yds away, about 0.11 secs before
the slug.  If you compare that to a deer "jumping the string" of an
arrow flying at 300 fps, in which case the sound gets to the deer
about 0.22 secs before the arrow, then you're talking about a deer
with amazing reaction time.

Add a laser rangefinder, and with practice you can
consistently hit a paper plate at ranges up to 125 yards.

Then why do shotgun hunters usually take their deer at much shorter distances?

Have I convinced anyone?

BillM wrote:
"Matt" <matt at (no spam) THEMATTFELLA.XXXYYZ.COM> wrote in message
news:qAF4k.12396$bk3.10971 at (no spam) fe127.usenetserver.com...
I claim that a deer can dodge a slug or bullet after it is fired, and
that deer survive fairly often by doing this. How is this possible?

I will provide my answer in a few days.

Looking forward to the explanation! Do they see the muzzle flash?
2000fps bullet and
a 100 yd shot--time of flight .15 seconds. That's a pretty fast
reaction time.

I hope you have a more plausible answer--it would explain several
misses I've had over the years---wasn't my crappy shooting, the deer
stepped aside after I fired!


I enjoyed the responses. Several were on the right track, but nobody
described a specific case where the phenomenon is most observable.

Of course the assumption that the animal has to hear the shot is a show
stopper. But we all know deer are not blind.

The other troublesome assumption is that all shots have to be taken at
50 yards, since that is a very common distance for taking a deer. We
are talking about "the deer not taken" and /why/ they are not taken.

With good practice and moderately-priced equipment, it is not very hard
to put five 12-gauge slugs in a 4-inch circle from 100 yards. It can be
done with a scoped gun and a bird barrel shooting ordinary 60-cent
plastic-wad slugs. Add a laser rangefinder, and with practice you can
consistently hit a paper plate at ranges up to 125 yards. Then why do
shotgun hunters usually take their deer at much shorter distances?

Some states permit hunting a half-hour before sunrise and a half-hour
after sunset. When it is 25 minutes past sunset and cloudy, you can
barely see, but using a 4X 42 mm scope, you can see your deer well
enough to aim. If the deer cooperates, there is no reason you can't hit
it from 100 yards.

If someone takes a flash picture in the daytime, you don't notice the
flash unless you are looking right at it. At night you will easily see
the flash reflected off the surroundings. If you have never fired a
shotgun around dusk, you might be surprised at how bright the muzzle
flash looks. You probably have never noticed your muzzle flash when
shooting on the target range at three in the afternoon. However I don't
know whether to assume that deer can't detect a 12-gauge muzzle flash in
daylight.

At 1560 fps, it takes a slug about 1/4 second to fly 100 yards, and
closer to 1/3 second to fly 125 yards. The time of flight is similar
for a scoped .44 Mag revolver at the outer limit of its range (say 75 to
90 yards), but the revolver will produce a bigger flash. For a .50 cal
muzzle loader, I expect a similar flight time at 125 to 160 yards, but a
somewhat smaller flash. I'm thinking that the flash from a high-powered
rifle is small enough that it is much harder for a deer to see from 200
yards or more---also it is getting hard for the hunter to detect a deer
from that distance under dim light.

Have I convinced anyone?

If someone takes a flash picture in the daytime, you don't notice the
flash unless you are looking right at it. At night you will easily see
the flash reflected off the surroundings. If you have never fired a
shotgun around dusk, you might be surprised at how bright the muzzle
flash looks. You probably have never noticed your muzzle flash when
shooting on the target range at three in the afternoon. However I don't
know whether to assume that deer can't detect a 12-gauge muzzle flash in
daylight.

At 1560 fps, it takes a slug about 1/4 second to fly 100 yards, and
closer to 1/3 second to fly 125 yards. The time of flight is similar
for a scoped .44 Mag revolver at the outer limit of its range (say 75 to
90 yards), but the revolver will produce a bigger flash. For a .50 cal
muzzle loader, I expect a similar flight time at 125 to 160 yards, but a
somewhat smaller flash. I'm thinking that the flash from a high-powered
rifle is small enough that it is much harder for a deer to see from 200
yards or more---also it is getting hard for the hunter to detect a deer
from that distance under dim light.

Have I convinced anyone?

Question to me would be if muzzle flash would cause deer to duck. I've
seen them duck at sound of a gun shot when someone was grouse hunting
while I was bow hunting but a flash, I don't know. The "deer in the
headlights" usually freezes.

the muzzle and has the instinct to jump at the sight of a muzzle
flash.

I claim that a deer can dodge a slug or bullet after it is fired, and that
deer survive fairly often by doing this. How is this possible?

I will provide my answer in a few days.

"Matt" <matt at (no spam) THEMATTFELLA.XXXYYZ.COM> wrote in message
news:qAF4k.12396$bk3.10971 at (no spam) fe127.usenetserver.com...
I claim that a deer can dodge a slug or bullet after it is fired, and
that deer survive fairly often by doing this. How is this possible?

I will provide my answer in a few days.


This year my buck was literally looking right at me, so it seemed
through the scope. I hit him where I was aiming and he had to see the
flash but didn't move until it was too late. The 25.06 got there and did
it damage before he flew about 20 yards; pilling up in a yucca plant.

Jim

celtex wrote:
"Matt" <matt at (no spam) THEMATTFELLA.XXXYYZ.COM> wrote in message
news:qAF4k.12396$bk3.10971 at (no spam) fe127.usenetserver.com...
I claim that a deer can dodge a slug or bullet after it is fired, and
that deer survive fairly often by doing this. How is this possible?

I will provide my answer in a few days.


This year my buck was literally looking right at me, so it seemed through
the scope. I hit him where I was aiming and he had to see the flash but
didn't move until it was too late. The 25.06 got there and did it damage
before he flew about 20 yards; pilling up in a yucca plant.

Jim


Congratulations, but does it have something to do with the question at
hand?

Congratulations, but does it have something to do with the question at hand?

"Matt" <m... at (no spam) THEMATTFELLA.XXXYYZ.COM> wrote in message

news:bef8k.93556$WG2.9640 at (no spam) fe117.usenetserver.com...





celtex wrote:
"Matt" <m... at (no spam) THEMATTFELLA.XXXYYZ.COM> wrote in message
news:qAF4k.12396$bk3.10971 at (no spam) fe127.usenetserver.com...
I claim that a deer can dodge a slug or bullet after it is fired, and
that deer survive fairly often by doing this.  How is this possible?

I will provide my answer in a few days.

This year my buck was literally looking right at me, so it seemed through
the scope. I hit him where I was aiming and he had to see the flash but
didn't move until it was too late. The 25.06 got there and did it damage
before he flew about 20 yards; pilling up in a yucca plant.

Jim

Congratulations, but does it have something to do with the question at
hand?

Yes 100%. As he was looking at me when I pulled the trigger. If flash was a
contributing factor to jumping/dodging a bullet then I would have expected
him to do just that.
Jim- Hide quoted text -

Yes 100%. As he was looking at me when I pulled the trigger. If flash was a
contributing factor to jumping/dodging a bullet then I would have expected
him to do just that.