http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lQCaEJjlOM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lQCaEJjlOM


this Dan, what's is name, sure is a shitty ref........

He was intelligently covering up. the right thing to do at that time.
especially when there's about 10 seconds left in the round!!!

are you saying, that there are rules against intelligently covering up
in mma?

or maybe we should make mma, a point sparing game to make you
happy!

fact, veira was not hurt, fact, he was covering up, fact the ref is an idiot....

Herbert Cannon wrote:

You cannot fuck up on the side of safety. Fuck up the other way and you
have a huge fuck up.

So by that (il)logic, a "fuck up" on the side of safety is only a little
"fuck up", yet, according to you, a little "fuck up" is not a "fuck up" at
all! So the question remains: When is a "fuck up" not a "fuck up"?
Answer: When Herbert Cannon says so!

The best can make mistakes too and would probably prefer to make them on
the side of safety..

Are you an apologist for "fuck ups"?

There is no such thing as a clairvoyant referee.

Prove it.

He was intelligently covering up. the right thing to do at that time.
especially when there's about 10 seconds left in the round!!!

The rules don't change based on the time left on the clock.
are you saying, that there are rules against intelligently covering up

He was intelligently covering up. the right thing to do at that time.
especially when there's about 10 seconds left in the round!!!

The rules don't change based on the time left on the clock.

Or when it is not on the side of safety.

Are you a fuck up?

Go to your séance.

are you saying, that there are rules against intelligently covering up
in mma?

To be clear, I don't particularly care about this decision...I was
just pointing out that you can't change the rules just because there
are 10 seconds left. And, for the record, there were 20.

when it's all said and done, nothing worse then a ref. who takes it upon

I agree. The fact that Vera's head was never made to bounce off the
canvas, that he wasn't cut badly, that his mouth wasn't opened in
exhaustion, that he wasn't stopping to do the exact thing... cover up
and block almost all the shots, was the indicator that he was just
fighting intelligently and not trying to do anything stupid that might
have gotten him choked out.  Bad stoppage. Why...? I dunno.

You'd think these refs would be attuned to what protecting a fighter
means, and what a fighter in serious danger, not able to protect himself
means.

Mark

McNaples wrote:
yugffuts wrote:
He was intelligently covering up. the right thing to do at that time.
especially when there's about 10 seconds left in the round!!!
The rules don't change based on the time left on the clock.
are you saying, that there are rules against intelligently covering up in
mma? or maybe we should make mma, a point sparing game to make you happy!
fact, veira was not hurt, fact, he was covering up, fact the ref is an
idiot....
I agree. The fact that Vera's head was never made to bounce off the canvas,
that he wasn't cut badly, that his mouth wasn't opened in exhaustion, that
he wasn't stopping to do the exact thing... cover up and block almost all
the shots, was the indicator that he was just fighting intelligently and
not trying to do anything stupid that might have gotten him choked out.
Bad stoppage. Why...? I dunno. You'd think these refs would be attuned to
what protecting a fighter means, and what a fighter in serious danger, not
able to protect himself means.

Point taken, but, I think I feel differently. It is a case, of the rules
interpretation, and in the case of an intelligent fighter, who knows
he's at the end of a round, Vera's move showed poise, and intelligence-

it was the smart move, and he would have survived well into the next
round. Plus he wasn't until that point injured at all, and thus there
was no overriding concern for the welfare of an outclassed fighter, nor
one who was getting injured without defense.

But I also understand... and I haven't read the rules, so I can't say,
but it would seem that the intent of the rule is to get the fighters to
fight and not be injured. If the intent was such, then Vera was doing
the best fighting that last 30 seconds called for- simple blocking and
preventing damage.

I don't know how much we can read into the words without the intent of
the rules to protect the fighter. for instance, when Kimbo fought that
big guy with the cauliflower ear that said- 'Kimbo, hit this' but Kimbo
didn't and almost got beat up- why the ref just kept letting it go on.
Then when Kimbo hit the giant ear full of blood and it popped and put
the sauce all over the guys face...'oops' fights over.

Obviously I'm being facetitious, but in the first fight, with vera and
werdun, I think the fighters and their abilities, the time left in the
round, the lack of damage to Vera all called for waiting longer and
allowing the round to end.

In the fight with Kimbo... not the UFC, but as a fight, obviously the
letter of the stoppage rule was a joke, and obviously to preserve the
myth of Kimbo. But be that as it may, I'm not sorry for Vera either. He
knew the game.

But the game lost, because two gifted fighters, uninjured, should be
allowed to fight, so, I feel sorry for the game, and the fans, who want
to see fighters win or lose fights.... which I find reasonable.

Mark

Mark Goldberg <msgoldberg at (no spam) optonline.net> wrote on Sat, 14 Jun 2008:
McNaples wrote:
yugffuts wrote:
He was intelligently covering up. the right thing to do at that time.
especially when there's about 10 seconds left in the round!!!
The rules don't change based on the time left on the clock.
are you saying, that there are rules against intelligently covering up in
mma? or maybe we should make mma, a point sparing game to make you happy!
fact, veira was not hurt, fact, he was covering up, fact the ref is an
idiot....
I agree. The fact that Vera's head was never made to bounce off the canvas,
that he wasn't cut badly, that his mouth wasn't opened in exhaustion, that
he wasn't stopping to do the exact thing... cover up and block almost all
the shots, was the indicator that he was just fighting intelligently and
not trying to do anything stupid that might have gotten him choked out.
Bad stoppage. Why...? I dunno. You'd think these refs would be attuned to
what protecting a fighter means, and what a fighter in serious danger, not
able to protect himself means.

There's a little more to "fighting intelligently" than just absorbing
punishment.

What did you think of the stoppage in the last Serra/GSP fight? Serra also
didn't tap, wasn't cut, was perfectly conscious, etc. But he was also
turtled up, and just absorbing punishment.

The UFC has made it perfectly clear that if you simply cover up, and have no
plan other than taking hits over and over again (perhaps until time runs out),
that they'll give you a little time ... but eventually stop the fight. You
need to try to do SOMETHING to escape from the position, or to counterattack.
You aren't allowed to absorb blows indefinitely.

I don't think that's such a horrible rule.

I don't agree at all.

The RULES in these things SPECIFICALLY say that you cannot just cover
up and take shots. You HAVE to do something, some kind of ACTIVE
defense. You are simply not allowed to lay on the ground under mount
and just cover up. Those are the rules.
.....

I've got no sympathy for Vera here really because he resorted to that
cover up because he knew it was his only option. He could not try to
grab and clutch as he knew Werdum would armbar him quickly. He could
not turn over because Werdum would have choked him out. I mean, Vera
knew who he had on him and so he tried to eat punches instead of
giving Werdum another weakness. The fight was over there under the
ruleset, just the way it was. What was Vera supposed to do, extend
his arms, give his back?? That would be suicide against Werdum, so he
covered and hoped.