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MusicxCosmos...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:06 am
Guest
Greetings!

Now that we're in the 21st century with all the advances in
technology, including advanced sound design, etc.
I'm just wondering, are today's composers in the classical music realm
really taking advantages of modern electronics instruments to compose
their symphonies, concertos, etc.?

TTH
Rexsy.com
(free music download & all)
boombox...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:59 am
Guest
MusicxCosmos wrote:
Quote:
Greetings!

Now that we're in the 21st century with all the advances in
technology, including advanced sound design, etc.
I'm just wondering, are today's composers in the classical music realm
really taking advantages of modern electronics instruments to compose
their symphonies, concertos, etc.?

Thre is a continuum, ranging from those who do it the old-fashioned
way, writing for acoustic instruments with pencil and paper, to those
who use sequencing programs for notation, to those who use electronic
instruments, and on to those who incorporate digital audio into their
work. I’d say most composers over 60 are in the first category, most
under 30 in the last. That’s not to say the young ones can’t write
the old way, but that they are much more likely to write directly into
a sequencing program, use virtual instruments to hear the result, be
able to incorporate concrete or synthetic samples via digital audio,
load the sample files into an ipod and take it to the concert, gig or
session. Most of them self-publish and some still even write
concerti.
boombox...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:32 am
Guest
Robert W. McAdams wrote:

Quote:
I don't really think that age is the determining factor. The issue is
more likely to be how accustomed a composer has been to writing music
the old way, and how easy he or she finds it to change.

A composer writing a symphony or concerto without the use of notation
software is sort of like an author writing a novel without the use of
word processing software. It can be done, but for most of us, it's a
lot less efficient.

But people who have been doing something one way sometimes find it
difficult to change to a different way because they've developed habits
of work that have become deeply engrained. A well known author once
said that he found it easier to write using pencil and paper than using
a typewriter. Undoubtedly, there are composers who feel much the same
way about composing music.


Of course it’s not age alone that determines how older composers work,
but rather the very reasons you state above. Some change with new
technology regardless of age, some stick with the way they learned to
do it and have always done it. As in many endeavors, flexibility tends
to diminish with age. John Adams, at 61, writes on a computer,
incorporates electronic instruments and samples into his scores and
realizes MIDI versions of his pieces for demonstration purposes. I
know other composers a little older than Adams who think that using a
computer is cheating, as if it is somehow less honest or manly. Then
again, I know kids who write, with pencil and paper, music that sounds
like Korngold.
Steve Latham...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:22 am
Guest
"MusicxCosmos" <Tuan.Thanh.Ho at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7625da85-3071-4101-a528-35eefe8333d9 at (no spam) f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
Greetings!

Now that we're in the 21st century with all the advances in
technology, including advanced sound design, etc.
I'm just wondering, are today's composers in the classical music realm
really taking advantages of modern electronics instruments to compose
their symphonies, concertos, etc.?

TTH
Rexsy.com
(free music download & all)

Well, they shouldn't be composing such archaic forms as symphonies and
concerti now should they?

Steve
Bob Lombard...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:30 am
Guest
MusicxCosmos wrote:
Quote:
Greetings!

Now that we're in the 21st century with all the advances in
technology, including advanced sound design, etc.
I'm just wondering, are today's composers in the classical music realm
really taking advantages of modern electronics instruments to compose
their symphonies, concertos, etc.?

TTH
Rexsy.com
(free music download & all)

"Modern electronics instruments" aren't required to create melodies,
harmonies, polyphony or counterpoint. But if they'll help, I hope
"today's composers" will jump in.

bl
Peter T. Daniels...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:13 am
Guest
On Jun 2, 3:12 pm, "Robert W. McAdams" <r... at (no spam) fambright.com> wrote:
Quote:
boombox wrote:

MusicxCosmos wrote:

Greetings!

Now that we're in the 21st century with all the advances in
technology, including advanced sound design, etc.
I'm just wondering, are today's composers in the classical music realm
really taking advantages of modern electronics instruments to compose
their symphonies, concertos, etc.?

Thre is a continuum, ranging from those who do it the old-fashioned
way, writing for acoustic instruments with pencil and paper, to those
who use sequencing programs for notation, to those who use electronic
instruments, and on to those who incorporate digital audio into their
work.  I’d say most composers over 60 are in the first category, most
under 30 in the last.  That’s not to say the young ones can’t write
the old way, but that they are much more likely to write directly into
a sequencing program, use virtual instruments to hear the result, be
able to incorporate concrete or synthetic samples via digital audio,
load the sample files into an ipod and take it to the concert, gig or
session.  Most of them self-publish and some still even write
concerti.

I don't really think that age is the determining factor.  The issue is
more likely to be how accustomed a composer has been to writing music
the old way, and how easy he or she finds it to change.

A composer writing a symphony or concerto without the use of notation
software is sort of like an author writing a novel without the use of
word processing software.  It can be done, but for most of us, it's a
lot less efficient.

"Efficiency" has nothing to do with creating a work of art. Certainly
the amanuensis should use the most "efficient" tools available when
transcribing the work for submission, but the creator is probably not
the person doing the transcribing.
Neil...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:28 am
Guest
On Jun 2, 8:06�am, MusicxCosmos <Tuan.Thanh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Greetings!

Now that we're in the 21st century with all the advances in
technology, including advanced sound design, etc.
I'm just wondering, are today's composers in the classical music realm
really taking advantages of modern electronics instruments to compose
their symphonies, concertos, etc.?

TTH
Rexsy.com
(free music download & all)

Technology has certainly made composing easier as far as documentation
goes, which enables the composer to concentrate on creativity. An
application like Finale along with improved plugins for the sounds of
instruments allows the composer not only to get the notes on paper
easier, but to hear a synthesized rendition of the piece. Although ...
the great composers could hear it in their heads, Beethoven being the
most amazing example. So the present day situation is for composing
like it is for everything else -- technology takes the work out of
work.

Neil Miller, author of The Piano Lessons Book
Enter in Amazon.com search: Neil Miller Piano Lessons Book
OR http://www.createspace.com/3332371
albert...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:36 am
Guest
Actually, composers have been using electronics (musique concrete)
from the late 40's, and a number of composers use an electronic grid
'under' a conventional orchestra to create unimagined before
sonorities and colors. The best work of this kind on a large scale and
pretty accessible is the masterpiece L'amour de loin by Kaija
Saariaho. She has an entire electric orchestra under the large
conventional orchestra and the results are devastating and thrilling.
There is a great DVD available, this is as lush and soaring as
anything with marvelous vocal opportunities (Finley and Upshaw are
more than equal, the last in a sort of Liebestod is incredible).

I was a student at Cal Arts when both Dika Newlin and Mort Subotnick
were there and working (she was in residence for a few weeks at a
time). He had done Touch and was finishing Sidewinder, she had been
playing with electronics a lot. I thought they were both amazing. She
was much ahead of her time in her understanding of what we now call
sampling and electronic enhancement could do. She was also an amazing
mind.

Albert
Robert W. McAdams...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:12 pm
Guest
boombox wrote:
Quote:

MusicxCosmos wrote:

Greetings!

Now that we're in the 21st century with all the advances in
technology, including advanced sound design, etc.
I'm just wondering, are today's composers in the classical music realm
really taking advantages of modern electronics instruments to compose
their symphonies, concertos, etc.?


Thre is a continuum, ranging from those who do it the old-fashioned
way, writing for acoustic instruments with pencil and paper, to those
who use sequencing programs for notation, to those who use electronic
instruments, and on to those who incorporate digital audio into their
work. I’d say most composers over 60 are in the first category, most
under 30 in the last. That’s not to say the young ones can’t write
the old way, but that they are much more likely to write directly into
a sequencing program, use virtual instruments to hear the result, be
able to incorporate concrete or synthetic samples via digital audio,
load the sample files into an ipod and take it to the concert, gig or
session. Most of them self-publish and some still even write
concerti.

I don't really think that age is the determining factor. The issue is
more likely to be how accustomed a composer has been to writing music
the old way, and how easy he or she finds it to change.

A composer writing a symphony or concerto without the use of notation
software is sort of like an author writing a novel without the use of
word processing software. It can be done, but for most of us, it's a
lot less efficient.

But people who have been doing something one way sometimes find it
difficult to change to a different way because they've developed habits
of work that have become deeply engrained. A well known author once
said that he found it easier to write using pencil and paper than using
a typewriter. Undoubtedly, there are composers who feel much the same
way about composing music.

I'm not sure whether "taking advantages of modern electronics
instruments" means using those instruments to try to determine how your
piece is going to sound when played by a live orchestra, or whether it
means incorporating electronic instruments into the ultimate performance.

The first depends heavily on how accurately software can simulate the
sounds of a live orchestra. Do electronic french horns really sound
like real french horns? Do electronic bassoons really sound like real
bassoons? And, equally importantly, if electronic french horns and
electronic bassoons are playing together, does the result really sound
like real french horns and real bassoons playing together? To the
extent that the answer is yes, a composer can use an electronic playback
to determine whether the instrumentation is correct. To the extent that
the answer is no, the playback may just be a distraction.

The second is simply a variation of something that has been a part of
classical music throughout its history. It began with Haydn's
reinstrumentation of the orchestra in the 18th century, and has
continued since that time, as orchestras have expanded and composers
have added new instruments to their orchestrations. Electronic
instruments are simply another addition. And the rule of thumb has
always been that it's easiest to do this sort of thing once you've
become established as a composer writing for the familiar instruments,
since it will take some effort and expense for orchestras to arrange for
the presence of instruments that aren't a regular part of their ensemble.


Bob
Peter T. Daniels...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:22 pm
Guest
On Jun 2, 5:36 pm, albert <Albert.Innaur... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote:
Actually, composers have been using electronics (musique concrete)
from the late 40's, and a number of composers use an electronic grid
'under' a conventional orchestra to create unimagined before
sonorities and colors.

Which has nothing to do with OP's statement about notation software
vs. pencil and paper.

Quote:
The best work of this kind on a large scale and
pretty accessible is the masterpiece L'amour de loin by Kaija
Saariaho. She has an entire electric orchestra under the large
conventional orchestra and the results are devastating and thrilling.
There is a great DVD available, this is as lush and soaring as
anything with marvelous vocal opportunities (Finley and Upshaw are
more than equal, the last in a sort of Liebestod is incredible).

I was a student at Cal Arts when both Dika Newlin and Mort Subotnick
were there and working (she was in residence for a few weeks at a
time). He had done Touch and was finishing Sidewinder, she had been
playing with electronics a lot. I thought they were both amazing. She
was much ahead of her time in her understanding of what we now call
sampling and electronic enhancement could do. She was also an amazing
mind.
Peter T. Daniels...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:24 pm
Guest
On Jun 2, 7:41 pm, "Steve Latham" <llat... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
Quote:
"Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote in message
news:493d219a-3cb0-41a3-8061-

 Certainly
the amanuensis should use the most "efficient" tools available when
transcribing the work for submission, but the creator is probably not
the person doing the transcribing.'

Ahh, "manual laborer" or someone who writes things down "manually" or by
hand, and in this context, the "person who notates".

?? You've never read a biography of Benjamin Britten? Imogen Holst
routinely referred to herself as his amanuensis.

Quote:
"grammatim"

Grammer Time?

as in Hammer Time?

:-)

Fairly close, but "Time" isn't involved.
Peter T. Daniels...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:25 pm
Guest
On Jun 2, 5:28 pm, Neil <nhmil... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 2, 8:06�am, MusicxCosmos <Tuan.Thanh... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Greetings!

Now that we're in the 21st century with all the advances in
technology, including advanced sound design, etc.
I'm just wondering, are today's composers in the classical music realm
really taking advantages of modern electronics instruments to compose
their symphonies, concertos, etc.?

TTH
Rexsy.com
(free music download & all)

Technology has certainly made composing easier as far as documentation
goes, which enables the composer to concentrate on creativity. An
application like Finale along with improved plugins for the sounds of
instruments allows the composer not only to get the notes on paper
easier, but to hear a synthesized rendition of the piece. Although ...
the great composers could hear it in their heads, Beethoven being the
most amazing example. So the present day situation is for composing
like it is for everything else -- technology takes the work out of
work.

Any competent musician can "hear it in their head." How do you suppose
a conductor prepares an unfamiliar work?
albert...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:38 pm
Guest
On Jun 2, 10:22 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma... at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 2, 5:36 pm, albert <Albert.Innaur... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:

Actually, composers have been using electronics (musique concrete)
from the late 40's, and a number of composers use an electronic grid
'under' a conventional orchestra to create unimagined before
sonorities and colors.

Which has nothing to do with OP's statement about notation software
vs. pencil and paper.

Apologies for extending the discussion into a brief statement about
how 'electronics' have been used for particular concrete effects. I
really feel bad that you are so offended by the suggestion that the
'software' issue extends into aesthetic values. Of course perhaps you
are comfortable being a bore. The answer to any question about
notation software is a yawn. If it helps get a complex score down
accurately and efficiently why not? And for any music director of a
show it's very helpful indeed when arranging for a 'band' that may
change from the first plans to the opening night. If someone needs the
old fashioned way, good and let's hope the results merit the hand
cramp. From your ungracious and pointless response I think you must
know a lot about hand cramp, from cranking the old skin pipe!

Albert
Steve Latham...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:35 pm
Guest
"Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim at (no spam) verizon.net> wrote in message
news:493d219a-3cb0-41a3-8061-

amanuensis

And Peter's word for the day on his calendar: amanuensis.

Of course, now you've made me have to go and look it up Peter!

Steve
Steve Latham...
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:37 pm
Guest
"albert" <Albert.Innaurato at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5f4c91a4-ab5a-47fb-8daa-


and a number of composers use an electronic grid
Quote:
'under' a conventional orchestra to create unimagined before
sonorities and colors.

Yes, I too have found that when an electric current is applied to this grid
under the orchestra, you can goad them into some shocking performances :-D


Steve
 
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