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Chris Winkelmann
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:19 pm
 
George,

Thank you for the information; it was exactly what I was looking for.
I did not think they were a legitimate chivalric order--or else we
would have read of their reconstitution on this forum, most likely--but
did not know what manner of beast they were.

I do agree that they are certainly deliberately trying to copy various
chivalric orders in their dress. It's not so much that they have the
cape, per se, but that their grand cross (or whatever they call their
highest grade) has the silk riband, the officers have the cords of
office, etc. They also have classes "of justice", "of honor", "of
grace", like the SMOM or Constantinan.

I know there are people who object to the K. of C.'s using "knights" in
their title, but at least the ceremonial dress of that worthy
brotherhood more closely resembles other confraternals than chivalric
orders.

One wonders if the Mercedarian order tried to get canoncial approval
for reinstitution before the establishment as an association of
Christian faithful? Or if this is a prelude to such a move?

Anyway, George, thank you for your assistance--and always being such a
true gentleman on this forum.

Best regards,

Chris Winkelmann
 
George Lucki
Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 9:40 pm
 
"Chris Winkelmann" <chris_winkelmann@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145762396.477571.224940@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Quote:
George,

Thank you for the information; it was exactly what I was looking for.
I did not think they were a legitimate chivalric order--or else we
would have read of their reconstitution on this forum, most likely--but
did not know what manner of beast they were.

I do agree that they are certainly deliberately trying to copy various
chivalric orders in their dress. It's not so much that they have the
cape, per se, but that their grand cross (or whatever they call their
highest grade) has the silk riband, the officers have the cords of
office, etc. They also have classes "of justice", "of honor", "of
grace", like the SMOM or Constantinan.

I know there are people who object to the K. of C.'s using "knights" in
their title, but at least the ceremonial dress of that worthy
brotherhood more closely resembles other confraternals than chivalric
orders.

One wonders if the Mercedarian order tried to get canoncial approval
for reinstitution before the establishment as an association of
Christian faithful? Or if this is a prelude to such a move?

Anyway, George, thank you for your assistance--and always being such a
true gentleman on this forum.

Best regards,

Chris Winkelmann

Chris, thanks for your kind words. George Lucki

 
Guy Stair Sainty
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:08 am
 
In article <1145655859.027377.118730@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, Chris
Winkelmann says...
Quote:

Later on, in 1936, due to complaints from other military orders whose
emblems were eclipsed by the beauty, historical and heraldic transcendence
of the Mercedarians', though it recognized in practice the Order's right to
confer these emblems, the Holy See asked the Order to refrain from
conferring them. Although the king of Spain offered to intervene, in
obedience to the Church's voice, the Order never granted them again. On the
same occasion, Pius XI removed from the Mercedarian title the appellatives
of Royal and Military which the Order had since its origin."


This is of course nonsense; it was simply that the matter had become thoroughly
scandalous, with the Order being sold by all manner of intermediaries. The
"chivalric" Order of Mercy was included among those Orders condemned by the Holy
See in a statementsof 21 March 1952 (repeated 14 December 1970), and published
in the Osservatore Romano.


--
Guy Stair Sainty
www.chivalricorders.org/index3.htm
 
Guy Stair Sainty
Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:14 am
 
In article <_%t2g.59710$7a.27001@pd7tw1no>, George Lucki says...
Quote:

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.


My own read would be that the statutes outline a religious mission of =
social action and personal spiritual growth that is quite consistent =
with other statements regarding the role of lay associations within the =
Mercredan religious order. At the same time I really don't know what to =
make of the "knights" - who make a clear point of saying we are not what =
we appear to be. In terms of their structure as a lay group associated =
with the Mercredans or as a lay group with a chivalric inspiration they =
are on a sound footing with their current statutes.
This group is not a Catholic chivalric order in the same way as the =
Order of Malta or Holy Sepulchre. From the way in which the German site =
treats them there is a risk that they will be portrayed (or some members =
will protray themselves) as part of a Catholic chivalric order. Their =
own site has the appropriate caveats but the degree to which it focus on =
the chivalric trappings walks a fine line. Unless they read carefully =
people could easily misunderstand thinking that this is a Catholic =
religious order of knighthood.
Past that - I'm really speculating because I know nothing about this new =
group other than through the web pages cited here.

You are right, and that is the problem - Cardinal Amigo and the senior members

of the religious Order obviously see this as a religious and spiritual mission,
and possibly this is also the reaosn why many of the members have joined. But
clearly the pretence at being an Order - the insignia and mantles,
the ceremonial and investiture of members - is deliberate and will no doubt in
due course bring about the kind of problems that ended with the closure of the
earlier venture in 1936.


--
Guy Stair Sainty
www.chivalricorders.org/index3.htm
 
Franz
Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:36 pm
 
I know of many members of the Order who present it is as knightly
decoration (mainly in Italian and Spanish), and also associated with
'questionable' Orders.
 
 
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