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| Stephen Kochan |
 Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:19 am |
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Quote:
Frankly, the activity here at comp.lang.objective-c isn't impressive,
so I wanted to ask you if there are other news groups, forums, or
mailing lists that you can recommend?
Try Apple's Objective-C mailing list. There's some activity there,
but not much:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/objc-language
Quote: Any ideas about what we can do to attract more people to this newsgroup?
A couple of days ago I was also questioning the lack of actiivity
here. Unfortuntately, I don't have any ideas.
Steve |
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| Stephen Kochan |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:20 am |
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Quote:
Frankly, the activity here at comp.lang.objective-c isn't impressive,
so I wanted to ask you if there are other news groups, forums, or
mailing lists that you can recommend?
Try Apple's Objective-C mailing list. There's some activity there,
but not much:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/objc-language
Quote: Any ideas about what we can do to attract more people to this newsgroup?
A couple of days ago I was also questioning the lack of activity here.
Unfortuntately, I don't have any ideas.
Steve |
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| Charlton Wilbur |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:16 pm |
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Quote: "SK" == Stephen Kochan <steve@kochan-wood.com> writes:
SK> A couple of days ago I was also questioning the lack of
SK> actiivity here. Unfortuntately, I don't have any ideas.
Activity here frequently deteriorates into _David Stes contra mundum_
flamewars with lots of heat and little light (though I have learned a
great deal from reading others' refutation of Stes). The more
activity, the more chance Mr Stes will appear and tell us how Apple is
wrong, how none of us understand the one true way to program, and how
we should all be using POC. When that happens to a thread, it's dead.
Charlton
--
cwilbur at chromatico dot net
cwilbur at mac dot com |
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| Tor |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 12:31 pm |
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On 2004-08-29 04:20:27 +0200, steve@kochan-wood.com (Stephen Kochan) said:
Quote:
Frankly, the activity here at comp.lang.objective-c isn't impressive,
so I wanted to ask you if there are other news groups, forums, or
mailing lists that you can recommend?
Try Apple's Objective-C mailing list. There's some activity there,
but not much:
http://lists.apple.com/mailman/listinfo/objc-language
Any ideas about what we can do to attract more people to this newsgroup?
A couple of days ago I was also questioning the lack of activity here.
Unfortuntately, I don't have any ideas.
Steve
Thanks Steve!
Well, I'll do my best to direct people this way. Now, y'all stay put, ok?
--
Tor
live4mac@yahoo.no
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With
our thoughts, we make the world. |
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| Noé Falzon |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 1:23 pm |
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Stephen Kochan wrote:
Quote: A couple of days ago I was also questioning the lack of activity here.
Unfortuntately, I don't have any ideas.
Steve
Hi !
I think there's not much activity here because all questions that are
related only to C are asked in C newsgroups. And to be honnest, Objective-C
is so easy to learn and understand (hey, I did it after all  ) that very
few questions arise specificaly for Objective-C.
Plus, I think that few people use this language, since C++ seems more
popular as an object oriented C superset. Personally, I directed myself to
Objective-C because Cocoa is written with this language, and again, there
are not so much Mac users...
Though, I am currently writting a little console program in Objective-C,
given the fact that well known compilers can compile Objective-C. And all
my problems are C problems. Objective-C is really easy to deal with (at
least what I do with it).
Best regards from a quite young programmer,
NF
--
"From the age of Big Brother, from the age of the thought police, from a
dead man... greetings" -- George Orwell -- 1984
Veuiller retirer NO SPAM HERE de mon adresse.
Please remove NO SPAM HERE from my address. |
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| Michael Ash |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:18 pm |
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On Sun, 29 Aug 2004, Charlton Wilbur wrote:
Quote: Activity here frequently deteriorates into _David Stes contra mundum_
flamewars with lots of heat and little light (though I have learned a
great deal from reading others' refutation of Stes). The more
activity, the more chance Mr Stes will appear and tell us how Apple is
wrong, how none of us understand the one true way to program, and how
we should all be using POC. When that happens to a thread, it's dead.
This is where I get to point out that if everybody would simply *ignore*
him instead of continually and uselessly trying to refute him, his
presence would not be the death knell for a thread. This is getting
better, but keep this in mind before you hit "reply" to one of his posts. |
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| Sherm Pendley |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 2:20 pm |
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Noé Falzon wrote:
Quote: my problems are C problems.
That's the problem, in a nutshell. Most of the problems you'll have are
either C problems, or framework problems.
And those types of problems are all too often shouted down here - and
all too often, it's one particular troll doing the shouting.
I continue to lurk here in hopes that the troll - whose name I won't
mention for fear of summoning him - will give up and go away. I don't
have high hopes though. In fact, I imagine he'll be along any minute
now, delivering yet another rant about how Apple is a fringe platform,
how Cocoa sucks, how NeXT sucks, etc., etc.
sherm--
--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org |
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| Stephen Kochan |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 6:09 pm |
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Quote:
I think there's not much activity here because all questions that are
related only to C are asked in C newsgroups. And to be honnest, Objective-C
is so easy to learn and understand (hey, I did it after all ) that very
few questions arise specificaly for Objective-C.
I'm not sure I buy into that theory. Look how much more activity
there is in the Lisp and Smalltalk groups. Even the awk newsgroup has
more activity than this one!
Quote: Plus, I think that few people use this language, since C++ seems more
popular as an object oriented C superset. Personally, I directed myself to
Objective-C because Cocoa is written with this language, and again, there
are not so much Mac users...
Objective-C has never has been able to really break out from under the
shadow of Next/Apple. I think it's a shame, because it's a great
language.
I think an active newsgroup could help promote its popularity.
(Maybe we need a dedicated website with a Blog! -- just a thought!)
Steve |
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| Charlton Wilbur |
| Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:47 pm |
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Quote: "SK" == Stephen Kochan <steve@kochan-wood.com> writes:
I think there's not much activity here because all questions
that are related only to C are asked in C newsgroups. And to be
honnest, Objective-C is so easy to learn and understand (hey, I
did it after all ) that very few questions arise specificaly
for Objective-C.
SK> I'm not sure I buy into that theory. Look how much more
SK> activity there is in the Lisp and Smalltalk groups. Even the
SK> awk newsgroup has more activity than this one!
But LISP, Smalltalk, and awk are not additions to another language.
There are some things that are properly Objective-C: message sending,
selectors, and the like. Everything else is C or a library/object
framework. This is one of the things that make Objective-C elegant,
of course; but it means that most of the complicated problems are C
problems or library problems, not Objective-C problems _per se_.
SK> Objective-C has never has been able to really break out from
SK> under the shadow of Next/Apple. I think it's a shame, because
SK> it's a great language.
SK> I think an active newsgroup could help promote its popularity.
SK> (Maybe we need a dedicated website with a Blog! -- just a
SK> thought!)
But no matter how popular a language it winds up being, it's still
well supported out-of-the-box only on the Apple platform. On Unix or
Windows you need to deal with GNUstep, which is progressing pretty
much as quickly as people can devote spare cycles to it (which isn't
very fast, unfortunately), and which has its own newsgroup.
If you want to promote Objective-C's popularity, you need to get it to
work seamlessly on Windows. Make it work with Eclipse or Visual
Studio (or perhaps even .NET), make it an easy way to create Windows
applications, and it will break out of the Apple box. Activity in the
newsgroup will follow the wider acceptance of the language, not vice
versa.
And part of what is at the root of this is that Objective-C by itself
isn't that useful without a framework; if you have to recreate the
framework from scratch, you might as well just use C. C++ is much the
same way, but C++ had the Microsoft Foundation Classes as part of the
OS and later the STL as part of the standard library to drive its
acceptance. Objective-C has Cocoa, which is why it's supported so
well on Apple; if GNUStep were a more finished product and standard on
Linux and Windows machines, Objective-C would probably be used far
more often.
Charlton
--
cwilbur at chromatico dot net
cwilbur at mac dot com |
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| David Stes |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:04 am |
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No? Falzon <NOnoe.falzon@spamtiscali.frhere> wrote:
Quote:
... and again, there are not so much Mac users...
That is a good observation.
There are simply very few Mac developers around here; some of them are
rather noisy (like in accusing me, who likes to develop Objective-C
software, of actually being the reason why there are few Mac users). Of
course that is nonsense, I have a feeling rather that the low number of
Mac users is an indication of the decline in significance of Apple. |
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| Tor |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 1:39 am |
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On 2004-08-29 22:04:00 +0200, David Stes <stes@D5E02B33.kabel.telenet.be> said:
Quote: No? Falzon <NOnoe.falzon@spamtiscali.frhere> wrote:
... and again, there are not so much Mac users...
That is a good observation.
There are simply very few Mac developers around here; some of them are
rather noisy (like in accusing me, who likes to develop Objective-C
software, of actually being the reason why there are few Mac users). Of
course that is nonsense, I have a feeling rather that the low number of
Mac users is an indication of the decline in significance of Apple.
Apparently the number of Mac developers are on the increase (according
to Apple), but if things are so dire as you picture it, on the
development front, this should be an excellent business opportunity for
you to break into an untapped marked.
As for the future of Objecive-C, I have a feeling that with time it
will be so closely associated with Apple and Cocoa, that we sooner or
later inevitably will have to discuss the Cocoa Frameworks as well in
forums like this.
I made two searches on Google:
116.000 hits for: objective-c -cocoa -apple -macintosh -mac -darwin
233.000 hits for: objective-c
You can make your own conclusions, I think that is remarkable when you
consider how long Objective-C has existed (1980's) versus OS X's birth
on march 24th 2001. Imagine what the situation will be like in another
3 years from now...
This renaissance of Objective-C can't be bad, as it brings fresh blood
into this community.
I'm sure you don't agree with me David, so I'd be interested in hearing
what you think Objective-C's future is, besides Apple.
--
Tor
live4mac@yahoo.no
We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With
our thoughts, we make the world. |
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| Noé Falzon |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:06 pm |
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Guest
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Tor wrote:
Quote: what you think Objective-C's future is, besides Apple.
On sourceforge, there are 570 projects in Objective-C, from which only 105
are not for Mac OS X.
Does it mean something ?...
--
"From the age of Big Brother, from the age of the thought police, from a
dead man... greetings" -- George Orwell -- 1984
Veuiller retirer NO SPAM HERE de mon adresse.
Please remove NO SPAM HERE from my address. |
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| Ian Robinson |
| Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 2:51 pm |
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On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:06:24 +0100, NoéFalzon wrote
(in article <4132fb94$0$16967$626a14ce@news.free.fr>):
Quote: On sourceforge, there are 570 projects in Objective-C, from which only 105
are not for Mac OS X.
How many are active?
Ian
--
Ian Robinson, Belfast, UK - <http://www.canicula.com>
Soapbox - <http://homepage.mac.com/ianrobinson/index.html> |
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