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Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
Posted: Mon May 02, 2005 7:06 am
 
ian <ian.not@cox.net>
wrote on Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:07:04 -0400:
Quote:
There is already a Netrexx, though I must say that it feels much too
like 'translated java' for me to happily use it. I would like to see a
Rexx.Net version, as I feel that that platform might allow more of the
rexx syntax to survive.

The few dozen .net adaptations of other languages have been pretty
variant and inferior, so far, certainly far less faithful than the
hundreds of JVM-based translations of languages. NetRexx isn't
Java-like because the JVM required that (consider Jython, which is all
but indistinguishable from Python), it's because that's what Mike
Cowlishaw thought was the best combination of features for a new
language.

On top of which, trapping users on a Windoze solution[0], and one not
even standard there, is not healthy for the language. If you're going
to install a virtual machine, will you choose one that's reliable,
secure, and available on nearly every platform, or some pre-beta
"product" from Redmond? They've had 5 years, and .net is still nowhere.
Forget about it.

Back on OS/2, I used REXX and Object REXX extensively, and now I make
regular use of NetRexx, any time I want to write a little tool for my
own use[1]. NetRexx is by far the best of the language's iterations,
IMO. It takes some getting used to, if you're really set on the older
languages, but the advantage of being able to easily integrate Java
libraries is just overwhelming. Making extensions for REXX in C and
trying to get them portable in any way was a nightmare. If REXX is
going to survive, NetRexx is its best hope.

If there are features you think are missing from NetRexx, bring them
up so Mike or someone else can do something about them. If it's just
that it's not the exact same syntax as before, well, only you can help
you with that.

[0] Yeah, I know about Mono. It's about as useful as the disease,
because MS doesn't let them have all of the libraries, so they're
endlessly tail-chasing compatibility with MS code.
[1] I do use Python for many tasks where its libraries are sufficient,
but these days mainly because the JVM is very poorly supported on
FreeBSD; if the entire world was MacOS X, Linux, and Solaris, I'd be a
happier guy.
--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"Gibson and I dueled among blazing stacks of books for a while. [...] The
streets were crowded with his black-suited minions and I had to turn into a
swarm of locusts and fly back to Seattle." -Neal Stephenson, /. interview
 
ian
Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 3:06 am
 
Mickey wrote:

Quote:
ian wrote:

Mickey wrote:

ian wrote:


Mickey wrote:


WVanWyck@gmail.com wrote:



I gather he's referring to IBM mainframe land of TSO, MVS,

VM/CMS,

VSE,



etc. However, these systems in many (most) areas are in the

decline.


Can't begin to agree with this. The role of the mainframe has

changed,


but it is hardly in decline. Were this actually the case, the

numberof


job offers I get would be going down, not up.

Mickey

The rates I have seen on, for example, dice.com for Cobol/CICS etc,
appear pretty low - is that just some low-balling, or have

contractiing


rates for mainframe jobs held up?


Perspective is everything here. If one is judging by rates that

were

available in the late 90s, then rates are down. Then again, rates

in

the late 90s where grossly overblown due to the Y2K event. Top end
coders can still annex $50-$75/hr.

Mickey

Nice to know, if web developemnt gets too tedious - thanks.


Funny thing of late. In the good old days (that being the mid to late
90s), I was always hired to do some sort of COBOL or BAL programming,
and wound up coding Rexx because of my ability to make tools that
improved productivity for all the other coders. I never really saw any
job reqs that were targeting Rexx. Now, these last 2 years, I see them
constantly. One of the big reasons for this is the fact that many 3rd
party vendor packages now come ready to speak Rexx. AFOPER or OP/MVS
are 2 good examples. I also get a lot of work writing hooks out of
either CA7 or Endevor. From my view point, things are only getting
better :)

Mickey

Thats funny - I was hired in that era for my Cobol/CICS skills too, and
also ended up developing a large number of support tools using Rexx and
ISPF, etc, that made life easier and more productive for my team and
others. People were amazed at how quickly things could be turned around
using rexx - even compared to Natural, which was very big there.

I'll have to start checking out jobs on that end of things again.....

Thanks,

Ian
 
rony
Posted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:09 pm
 
Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes wrote:

Quote:
What I'm concerned with is that the common tools be portable so they
can survive the death of one system. Most operating systems and
hardware have, at best, a lifespan of 10 years before they die or are
changed to a point of total incompatibility, and most don't last 5. An
open-source Object REXX is good, because it is cross-platform, but
extension libraries for it are necessarily platform-specific.

Not necessarily. Using BSF4Rexx, Rexx and ooRexx can use all of Java as a huge external function
library which got ported already to wherever Java runs on.

The following is an ooRexx example coming with BSF4Rexx which runs unchanged under Linux, OS2 and
Windows:

------------------------- cut here ---------------------------
/* Object Rexx (message operator is the tilde: ~) */

system=.bsf4rexx ~ Class.class ~ forName("java.lang.System") -- get the "System" class object

properties=system~getProperties -- get the System properties
enum=properties~propertyNames -- get an enumeration of the property names
say copies("=", 70)

do while enum~hasMoreElements -- loop over enumeration
key=enum~nextElement -- get next element
say "key:" left("["key"]", 30) "value: ["properties~getProperty(key)"]"
end

::requires "BSF.cls" -- get the Object Rexx support for bsf4rexx
------------------------- cut here ---------------------------

You see, the peculiarities of Java (strong typing) are practically erased, allowing interacting with
Java with the ease of a scripting language.

---rony


P.S.: The same example, although a little less elegant, can be created for classic Rexx, where you
would have to use the external Rexx functions interfacing with Java directly.
 
ian
Posted: Wed May 04, 2005 3:06 am
 
rony wrote:
Quote:


Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes wrote:

What I'm concerned with is that the common tools be portable so they
can survive the death of one system. Most operating systems and
hardware have, at best, a lifespan of 10 years before they die or are
changed to a point of total incompatibility, and most don't last 5. An
open-source Object REXX is good, because it is cross-platform, but
extension libraries for it are necessarily platform-specific.


Not necessarily. Using BSF4Rexx, Rexx and ooRexx can use all of Java as
a huge external function library which got ported already to wherever
Java runs on.

The following is an ooRexx example coming with BSF4Rexx which runs
unchanged under Linux, OS2 and Windows:

------------------------- cut here ---------------------------
/* Object Rexx (message operator is the tilde: ~) */

system=.bsf4rexx ~ Class.class ~ forName("java.lang.System") -- get the
"System" class object

properties=system~getProperties -- get the System properties
enum=properties~propertyNames -- get an enumeration of the
property names
say copies("=", 70)

do while enum~hasMoreElements -- loop over enumeration
key=enum~nextElement -- get next element
say "key:" left("["key"]", 30) "value: ["properties~getProperty(key)"]"
end

::requires "BSF.cls" -- get the Object Rexx support for bsf4rexx
------------------------- cut here ---------------------------

You see, the peculiarities of Java (strong typing) are practically
erased, allowing interacting with Java with the ease of a scripting
language.

---rony


P.S.: The same example, although a little less elegant, can be created
for classic Rexx, where you would have to use the external Rexx
functions interfacing with Java directly.

Nice - I should play with that.

ian
 
 
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