I don't see much about System Builder here over the past several
years.  Is this environment still sold?  By whom?  Is there a free
personal edition available ?

Will Johnson

On Oct 30, 4:06 pm, wjhonson <wjhon... at (no spam) aol.com> wrote:

I don't see much about System Builder here over the past several
years.  Is this environment still sold?  By whom?  Is there a free
personal edition available ?

Will Johnson

It is still sold & supported by IBM

.... err, I mean Rocket

I should give the link.
Here is the Wikipedia pagehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SystemBuilder/SB%2B

at the bottom there's a link to the System Builder home page
which then has downloads.

So anyway you can download SB as a Personal Edition but it looks like
the build is from 2007 ?  Seems a little dated.  From the readmes it
looks like you need not just this download but also either the UV or
UD download as well.  So in all a whopping 140Meg of zipped download ,
more or less.  Unless I'm not reading this all right.

You do need to run it on top of UniData or UniVerse.

On 30 Oct, 18:31, Colin wrote:

You do need to run it on top of UniData or UniVerse.

Although SB+ is now available only for U2, users are not trapped by
this. The Nucleus product from BinaryStar can import SB+ projects,
providing a path to QM (and others).

Martin Phillips, Ladybridge Systems.

Designbais will also convert from SB+ (and runs on QM and others!).
xlr8 was looking to add SB+ conversion capability (not sure where it
ended up) but I think it only runs on U2.
Osmosis (not sure if it's still around) also does SB+ conversion....

hth
Colin Alfke
Calgary, Canada

On Nov 2, 9:38 am, Martin Phillips wrote:

On 30 Oct, 18:31, Colin wrote:

You do need to run it on top of UniData or UniVerse.

Although SB+ is now available only for U2, users are not trapped by
this. The Nucleus product from BinaryStar can import SB+ projects,
providing a path to QM (and others).

Martin Phillips, Ladybridge Systems.

Interesting ... I didn't know about the InterSystems play with
Osmosis. Some of your other comments sound somewhat familiar

Ross Ferris wrote:
Interesting ... I didn't know about the InterSystems play with
Osmosis. Some of your other comments sound somewhat familiar :-)

LeeB wrote:
InterSystems did not acquire Osmosis. However, Osmosis runs on Cache
and therefore represents another alternative.

Colin wrote:
Designbais will also convert from SB+ (and runs on QM and others!).
...
Osmosis (not sure if it's still around) also does SB+ conversion....

InterSystems acquired Osmosis but I don't know what they're doing with
it, if it's still offered for sale to developers, or if it works on
any platform other than D3.  The only way to tell is for a qualified
prospect to ask and see what happens.  I was quite impressed with it
at one point but could never get my hands on a version that I could
use.

Having seen the SB+ conversion capabilities in both Osmosis and
DesignBais, and having been a reseller for both products at one point,
it's my opinion that the conversion in Osmosis is far superior.  The
DB conversion is about 20% automated and 80% manual, though all real
developers know that's 98% automated with the last 2% simply taking
another couple years to work out.  Seriously, DesignBais has a strong
SB+ heritage, but SB+ migration to DB is largely a manual effort.

The difference between Osmosis and DesignBais is that Osmosis renders
as a thick client GUI plus character mode, where DB renders purely as
thin client.  So the tool you use depends on your target platform.

Rick Weiser wrote:
Yes, DesignBais can convert SB+ screens and
whats more is that once converted to DB, you become future proof.
Your application will run on any of the major MV platforms (U2, D3,
QM, OnWare, Cache, Revelation, Reality and jBASE) without changing or
converting the application (unless there are BASIC issues).

I'd like to inject a bit of reality:

- Your code is not "future proof" when the toolkit is changing all the
time and the application code still needs to be changed amidst all of
the other DB-specific code embedded in the application.

- Your code is also not "future proof" when it's based on ASP which is
ancient, unmaintained, and likely to be deprecated any year now.  I'll
encourage any VAR to tell a potential client that his/her software is
based on ASP and if they have any clue about what's going on in modern
development they'll look at you like you're telling them to buy a
dinosaur.  (Hmm, well, you're selling Pick - never mind.)

- Your application will not magically run on all platforms. DesignBais
is supported for multiple platforms but migration of application and
DB are subject to platform-specific issues in both code sets.

- "unless there are BASIC issues"?  How about dict issues?  Issues
with list processing?  Issues with temp files?  Connectivity issues?
Issues with conversions or correlatives?  Issues with the software not
working according to the docs?  Yes, assuming none of these issues
exist (anymore) in DesignBais, you should be able to run it anywhere.

Despite the issues I had with the software over time, I think
DesignBais is fine for a specific audience, or at least has potential
to be.  But "future proof" it is not, and I caution against
over-statements of the benefits.

T