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| Computers Forum Index » Computer - Databases - Informix » DB2 and Oracle -- where's Informix?... |
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| John Carlson... |
 Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:49 am |
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| eherber... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 7:30 am |
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Quote: .. "flagship DB2 database" .. No marketing of course. All databases
are treated equally. Some are more equal than others.
Funny. It think it was B. Spang (mentioned in the computer world
article) from IBM who
said in the past that it would be better not to call any data server
of IBM a
"flagship database". Now I understand what he was trying to say:
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for embedded solutions"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for OLTP"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for the MAC"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for SMB"
- don't call IDS a "flagship cluster database"
BUT
- it is always welcome to call DB2 a "flagship database" in every
imaginable area
I personally would recommend a more critical standpoint against IBM
both to
the Informix customers as well as to the IIUG. It is obvious that IBM
tells a different
story of the truth to the faithful Informix community. |
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| eherber... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:12 am |
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On 14 Okt., 09:30, eherber <e... at (no spam) herber-consulting.de> wrote:
Quote: .. "flagship DB2 database" .. No marketing of course. All databases
are treated equally. Some are more equal than others.
Funny. It think it was B. Spang (mentioned in the computer world
article) from IBM who
said in the past that it would be better not to call any data server
of IBM a
"flagship database". Now I understand what he was trying to say:
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for embedded solutions"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for OLTP"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for the MAC"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for SMB"
- don't call IDS a "flagship cluster database"
BUT
- it is always welcome to call DB2 a "flagship database" in every
imaginable area
I personally would recommend a more critical standpoint against IBM
both to
the Informix customers as well as to the IIUG. It is obvious that IBM
tells a different
story of the truth to the faithful Informix community.
To follow up on this, please vote here:
http://www.informix-zone.com/node/865 |
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| Ian Michael Gumby... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:23 pm |
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Quote: From: jwcarlson1 at (no spam) yahoo.com.invalid
Subject: DB2 and Oracle -- where's Informix?
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:49:31 -0400
To: informix-list at (no spam) iiug.org
No, I don't work for Uncle Mikey, but this headline required further
reading. Just wondering if anyone else saw this and what the reactions
are.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139182/IBM_calls_new_DB2_grid_feature_an_Oracle_Exadata_killer_
.. "flagship DB2 database" .. No marketing of course. All databases
are treated equally. Some are more equal than others.
And this is just starting to sink in now?
Geez, I've been talking about this problem (ad nauseum) for years!
The point is that IBM still doesn't treat IDS as anything but a poor bastid step child.
You can blame all of the 3 top tier senior level execs within DM for this. Sorry Jerry, but you're up there too.
You can blame your WW Sales organization and WW Marketing organization.
No offense to DB2, but there's a reason why IBM hides IDS. They don't want to get in to a benchmark war where one database outperforms another and its their own products duking it out.
They don't want to educate their sales force. Sure they have/had 'all hands sales calls'. Ever been on one? I have. Plenty of them. They're a waste of time and they don't do jack.
We can even look at the university program being launched in conjunction with the IIUG. Great you have a club level effort that won't win anyone's real hearts and minds.
Sorry to dump on NJ's pet project, but yeah, its not reaching the audience which will have the better ROI.
I equate this to one of Steve Balmer's Windows 7 Launch party kits.
Yeah, IBM is going to be in a world of hurt. They just don't understand their numbers. You know, the numbers we don't see?
-G
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| Fernando Nunes... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:36 pm |
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I believe the sentence "flagship database" is not in the IBM press release.
It appears to be a sentence used by the press, not the press release.
Assuming this is so, we can of course discuss why the press has this idea...
Incompetence, IBM fault etc...
Regards
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:12 AM, eherber <eric at (no spam) herber-consulting.de> wrote:
Quote: On 14 Okt., 09:30, eherber <e... at (no spam) herber-consulting.de> wrote:
.. "flagship DB2 database" .. No marketing of course. All databases
are treated equally. Some are more equal than others.
Funny. It think it was B. Spang (mentioned in the computer world
article) from IBM who
said in the past that it would be better not to call any data server
of IBM a
"flagship database". Now I understand what he was trying to say:
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for embedded solutions"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for OLTP"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for the MAC"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for SMB"
- don't call IDS a "flagship cluster database"
BUT
- it is always welcome to call DB2 a "flagship database" in every
imaginable area
I personally would recommend a more critical standpoint against IBM
both to
the Informix customers as well as to the IIUG. It is obvious that IBM
tells a different
story of the truth to the faithful Informix community.
To follow up on this, please vote here:
http://www.informix-zone.com/node/865
_______________________________________________
Informix-list mailing list
Informix-list at (no spam) iiug.org
http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
--
Fernando Nunes
Portugal
http://informix-technology.blogspot.com
My email works... but I don't check it frequently... |
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| Ian Michael Gumby... |
| Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:43 pm |
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Incompetence?
Naw... Do ya think!
Say it aint so! These Band10+ execs surely don't have their own agenda and don't want to rock the boat, lest they get shipped off to Siberia or made redundant!
There is no excuse but incompetence!
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:36:16 +0100
Subject: Re: DB2 and Oracle -- where's Informix?
From: domusonline at (no spam) gmail.com
To: informix-list at (no spam) iiug.org
I believe the sentence "flagship database" is not in the IBM press release.
It appears to be a sentence used by the press, not the press release.
Assuming this is so, we can of course discuss why the press has this idea....
Incompetence, IBM fault etc...
Regards
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:12 AM, eherber <eric at (no spam) herber-consulting.de> wrote:
On 14 Okt., 09:30, eherber <e... at (no spam) herber-consulting.de> wrote:
Quote: .. "flagship DB2 database" .. No marketing of course. All databases
are treated equally. Some are more equal than others.
Funny. It think it was B. Spang (mentioned in the computer world
article) from IBM who
said in the past that it would be better not to call any data server
of IBM a
"flagship database". Now I understand what he was trying to say:
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for embedded solutions"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for OLTP"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for the MAC"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for SMB"
- don't call IDS a "flagship cluster database"
BUT
- it is always welcome to call DB2 a "flagship database" in every
imaginable area
I personally would recommend a more critical standpoint against IBM
both to
the Informix customers as well as to the IIUG. It is obvious that IBM
tells a different
story of the truth to the faithful Informix community.
To follow up on this, please vote here:
http://www.informix-zone.com/node/865
_______________________________________________
Informix-list mailing list
Informix-list at (no spam) iiug.org
http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
--
Fernando Nunes
Portugal
http://informix-technology.blogspot.com
My email works... but I don't check it frequently...
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ |
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| Fernando Nunes... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:09 am |
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Ian Michael Gumby wrote:
Quote: Incompetence?
Naw... Do ya think!
Say it aint so! These Band10+ execs surely don't have their own agenda
and don't want to rock the boat, lest they get shipped off to Siberia or
made redundant!
There is no excuse but incompetence!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:36:16 +0100
Subject: Re: DB2 and Oracle -- where's Informix?
From: domusonline at (no spam) gmail.com
To: informix-list at (no spam) iiug.org
I believe the sentence "flagship database" is not in the IBM press release.
It appears to be a sentence used by the press, not the press release.
Assuming this is so, we can of course discuss why the press has this idea...
Incompetence, IBM fault etc...
Regards
I know it's an odd thought for you... but my intention was to give you
two options:
- Journalistic incompetence (inhability to keep up with IBM message)
- IBM fault for not being clear...
I would bet you'd choose the later, but you misinterpreted the first one
and choose it  |
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| Ian Michael Gumby... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:39 am |
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Fernando.
Bernie Spang is in competent. We've known this since 2006.
Incompetence in Senior Management? Hmmm. Oh the stories I could tell. ;-)
Incompetence in reporting? It was a fluff piece. They printed whatever garbage was thrown out.
The truth?
Add some of the shared nothing distributed framework of XPS in to IDS. Do it soon.
When I update my resume in Jan 2010, you'll understand. ;-)
Quote: From: domusonline at (no spam) gmail.com
Subject: Re: DB2 and Oracle -- where's Informix?
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:09:34 +0100
To: informix-list at (no spam) iiug.org
Ian Michael Gumby wrote:
Incompetence?
Naw... Do ya think!
Say it aint so! These Band10+ execs surely don't have their own agenda
and don't want to rock the boat, lest they get shipped off to Siberia or
made redundant!
There is no excuse but incompetence!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:36:16 +0100
Subject: Re: DB2 and Oracle -- where's Informix?
From: domusonline at (no spam) gmail.com
To: informix-list at (no spam) iiug.org
I believe the sentence "flagship database" is not in the IBM press release.
It appears to be a sentence used by the press, not the press release.
Assuming this is so, we can of course discuss why the press has this idea...
Incompetence, IBM fault etc...
Regards
I know it's an odd thought for you... but my intention was to give you
two options:
- Journalistic incompetence (inhability to keep up with IBM message)
- IBM fault for not being clear...
I would bet you'd choose the later, but you misinterpreted the first one
and choose it :)
_______________________________________________
Informix-list mailing list
Informix-list at (no spam) iiug.org
http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
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| eherber... |
| Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:08 am |
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Fernando,
no offense, but I think it is lame IBM excuse to denote that the press
is
incompetent and doesn't understand IBM's database strategy messaging.
In fact they understand it very well.
The point is:
IBM has two different stories of the truth. One that they tell the
faithul Informix
customers, ISV's and business partners and one that they tell the rest
of the world. The intermediate results of the 'IDS/DB2 marketing poll'
(http://informix-zone.com/node/865) show a clear result and commit the
fact that Mike and I are not the only ones that believe that IDS is
still treated
like 'Cinderella' in terms of marketing/publicity by IBM.
IBM earns good money with IDS but isn't willing to reinvest a single
dollar to
create product awareness in the market. As I already said in the past
I don't
think that this is a fair strategy with respect to the many faithful
Informix
customers, ISV's, distributors and partners that invest a lot of
work to push
their business with Informix forward. In fact they get nothing back
from IBM.
I relate the term "nothing back" not to the IDS technology which is
still
outstanding and improved by IBM. But technology is only the foundation
to
build a successful business.
It is the responsibility of the vendor to create product awareness in
the market.
Apart from two or three press releases a year and a road show/
bootcamp
that is targeted to a technical audience that already knows the
benefits of IDS,
nothing substantial comes from IBM (the start of the IDS academic
initiative has
been pushed by the community, not IBM). We all see the money that is
spent by
IBM for the advertising of the "Smarter Planet" campaign:
This advertising crap doesn't help any Informix partner to make a
single deal !!
As an Informix business partner I've to ask myself:
Is a vendor that is not willing to spend a single dollar to promote
it's own
product and establish it in the market the right one to partner with
now
and in the future ?
Is a vendor who claims to have a dual (or multiple) database strategy
but
almost always treats the product that is the core of my business as
'Cinderella' the right one to partner with now and in the future ?
Is a vendor that is constantly paying lip services but doesn't really
begin and
and push things forward in terms of market visibility for the product
that is
the core of my business the right one to partner with now and in the
future ?
You can be assured that I'm not the only Informix business partner
that has those
minds and doubts regarding IBM's Informix "strategy".
I don't want to initiate an endless discussion here on cdi as I
believe that this
doesn't really help . But I hope that somebody from IBM upper
management
reads this, thinks about it and (hopefully) comes to the conclusion
that
it's time to change the way IBM acts with respect to Informix and the
many
faithful customers and partners before it is too late.
On 14 Okt., 19:36, Fernando Nunes <domusonl... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: I believe the sentence "flagship database" is not in the IBM press release.
It appears to be a sentence used by the press, not the press release.
Assuming this is so, we can of course discuss why the press has this idea....
Incompetence, IBM fault etc...
Regards
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 10:12 AM, eherber <e... at (no spam) herber-consulting.de> wrote:
On 14 Okt., 09:30, eherber <e... at (no spam) herber-consulting.de> wrote:
.. "flagship DB2 database" .. No marketing of course. All databases
are treated equally. Some are more equal than others.
Funny. It think it was B. Spang (mentioned in the computer world
article) from IBM who
said in the past that it would be better not to call any data server
of IBM a
"flagship database". Now I understand what he was trying to say:
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for embedded solutions"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for OLTP"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for the MAC"
- don't call IDS a "flagship database for SMB"
- don't call IDS a "flagship cluster database"
BUT
- it is always welcome to call DB2 a "flagship database" in every
imaginable area
I personally would recommend a more critical standpoint against IBM
both to
the Informix customers as well as to the IIUG. It is obvious that IBM
tells a different
story of the truth to the faithful Informix community.
To follow up on this, please vote here:
http://www.informix-zone.com/node/865
_______________________________________________
Informix-list mailing list
Informix-l... at (no spam) iiug.org
http://www.iiug.org/mailman/listinfo/informix-list
--
Fernando Nunes
Portugal
http://informix-technology.blogspot.com
My email works... but I don't check it frequently... |
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| Ian Michael Gumby... |
| Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2009 4:14 am |
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Quote: From: eric at (no spam) herber-consulting.de
Subject: Re: DB2 and Oracle -- where's Informix?
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:08:59 -0700
To: informix-list at (no spam) iiug.org
Fernando,
no offense, but I think it is lame IBM excuse to denote that the press
is
incompetent and doesn't understand IBM's database strategy messaging.
In fact they understand it very well.
Fernando,
If you were going to do a survey, ask all of the client reps, .dot com reps, IGS/BCS and even SWG outside of IM, ask them to list IBM' database products.
How many of them would know something of IDS?
And of those that do know something of IDS, how much of it is misinformation?
How many times can I say that here in the Midwest of the US, the territory in IBM speak is North Central, are their IT Specialists who support IDS? Only 3 in the entire territory. That's 2 in Detroit, really 1 and 1/2, and one in Chicago. So how can you sell a product that you don't know or can support locally? Compare that to DB2 and you'll start to see what we're talking about.
There's more, but why beat a dead horse.
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