| Computers Forum Index » Computer - Emulators (Apple2) » more ideas for applewin debugger... |
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 Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:22 pm |
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Guest
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You guys integrated AGS, so how about a debugger for a real apple II?
http://www.noicedebugger.com/
watch REAL apple II video, while monitoring the CPU on the PC, through
applewin?? just a thought
Paste to debug command window control V
or "set source directory"... this would be in a HDV or DSK image.
SET_SRCa2DIR= "slot7/diskname/directoryname"
this would get saved in your preferences, so you didn't have to type
in
the entire name of the source directory:
SRCa2 = "source.txt"
and it would automatically go to "slot7/diskname/directoryname/
source.txt"
Pop that debugger window out into a seperate window!!! |
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| Michael... |
| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 5:30 pm |
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Guest
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Good ideas Rich!
Quote: Paste to debug command window control V
I added this a while back, in Debugger v 2.5.3.0. AppleWin 1.14.2.0
"shipped" with Debugger v2.5.7.11.
Quote: Pop that debugger window out into a seperate window!!!
Keep reminding me -- I'll eventually get to it 
Michael
On Feb 13, 9:22 am, aiiad... at (no spam) gmail.com wrote:
Quote: You guys integrated AGS, so how about a debugger for a real apple II?
http://www.noicedebugger.com/
watch REAL apple II video, while monitoring the CPU on the PC, through
applewin?? just a thought
Paste to debug command window control V
or "set source directory"... this would be in a HDV or DSK image.
SET_SRCa2DIR= "slot7/diskname/directoryname"
this would get saved in your preferences, so you didn't have to type
in
the entire name of the source directory:
SRCa2 = "source.txt"
and it would automatically go to "slot7/diskname/directoryname/
source.txt"
Pop that debugger window out into a seperate window!!! |
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| BLuRry... |
| Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:35 pm |
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On Feb 13, 2:26 pm, "a2retro" <a2re... at (no spam) a2central.com.remove-obl-this>
wrote:
Quote: To: aiiadict
aiiadict wrote:
You guys integrated AGS, so how about a debugger for a real apple II?
http://www.noicedebugger.com/
watch REAL apple II video, while monitoring the CPU on the PC, through
applewin?? just a thought
I have a Apple II compatible 6502 serial client for noice.
I wonder if we could get a virtual com thing going for 6502 noice serial
driver to talk the host PC com port
They just added SSC-over-TCP/IP support in AppleWin 1.6.0 beta.
Would that be useful? Already working really well for AGS, so it is
capable of high-speed transfers (comparable to 115200 baud). Serial
loopbacks are a pain in the neck to get working properly in some
situations (e.g. Vista).
-B |
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| a2retro... |
| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 2:26 am |
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Guest
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To: aiiadict
aiiadict wrote:
Quote: You guys integrated AGS, so how about a debugger for a real apple II?
http://www.noicedebugger.com/
watch REAL apple II video, while monitoring the CPU on the PC, through
applewin?? just a thought
I have a Apple II compatible 6502 serial client for noice.
I wonder if we could get a virtual com thing going for 6502 noice serial
driver to talk the host PC com port
Quote: Applewin -> Serial driver in rom -> ssc support -> pipe to com(x) -
Noice for windows
Glenn |
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| a2retro... |
| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:31 pm |
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Guest
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To: BLuRry
BLuRry wrote:
Quote: On Feb 13, 2:26 pm, "a2retro" <a2re... at (no spam) a2central.com.remove-obl-this
wrote:
To: aiiadict
aiiadict wrote:
You guys integrated AGS, so how about a debugger for a real apple II?
http://www.noicedebugger.com/
watch REAL apple II video, while monitoring the CPU on the PC, through
applewin?? just a thought
I have a Apple II compatible 6502 serial client for noice.
I wonder if we could get a virtual com thing going for 6502 noice serial
driver to talk the host PC com port
They just added SSC-over-TCP/IP support in AppleWin 1.6.0 beta.
Would that be useful? Already working really well for AGS, so it is
capable of high-speed transfers (comparable to 115200 baud). Serial
loopbacks are a pain in the neck to get working properly in some
situations (e.g. Vista).
-B
I tried a couple of these so called virtual serial port software
packages but my success rate was about 10% so I gave up after trying a
few of them.
When looked at some of the stats available noice always seems to be able
to send receive packets but that wasn't always the case for the Applewin
side. I barely looked at the code yesterday so i really don't know why
it wouldn't work..
I guess a better test might be to hook two pc's back to back over a real
null modem cable and see if that works.
Quote: Apple Win --> ssc -> comport --> null modem cable --> pc comport -- Noice
Glenn |
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| a2retro... |
| Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:41 am |
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Guest
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To: BLuRry
BLuRry wrote:
Quote:
They just added SSC-over-TCP/IP support in AppleWin 1.6.0 beta.
Would that be useful? Already working really well for AGS, so it is
capable of high-speed transfers (comparable to 115200 baud). Serial
loopbacks are a pain in the neck to get working properly in some
situations (e.g. Vista).
-B
It might be - I'll look into it.
Thank You
Glenn |
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| ... |
| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:10 pm |
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Guest
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On Feb 14, 7:31 am, "a2retro" <a2re... at (no spam) a2central.com.remove-8dj-this>
wrote:
Quote: I guess a better test might be to hook two pc's back to back over a real
null modem cable and see if that works.
>Apple Win --> ssc -> comport --> null modem cable --> pc comport -- Noice
There is the "virtual serial port", which will print to a file instead
of a COMport...
I wonder if you could tell noICE to talk through the "virtual"
COMport?
AppleWin --> SSC --> virtual COMport --> noICE
I think the "print to file" only allows one way com's. so you'd have
to figure
out a way to send data from noICE to the SSC in AW.
noICE can't be that difficult of a program to copy functionality of.
set breakpoint
single step
read registers
set registers
read RAM
write RAM
what else? How many bytes does the debugger take in the 6502
machine? We could copy the functions of that too. Seems like it
would be easier to rewrite noICE and make it freeware (so all of us
could use it!) instead of trying to hack together a few PC's, or hack
a serial driver, etc.
And if the remote debug monitor was AppleWin, it might make for a
really nice front end! Source level debug would be nice, with the
code running on a real apple II to make sure it will actually run on
real hardware!
RIch |
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| Michael... |
| Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:46 pm |
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Guest
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Quote: Actually the SSC to TCP support is the way to go. It's kinda neat remote
controlling Applewin from hyper terminal.
This is interesting.
Are there any AppleWin Debugger commands / features that need to be
added that are currently not supported?
i.e.
reboot
reset
Michael
AppleWin Debugger Dev |
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| sicklittlemonkey... |
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:37 am |
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Guest
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On Feb 19, 3:54 am, "a2retro" <a2re... at (no spam) a2central.com.remove-blc-this>
wrote:
Quote: Actually the SSC to TCP support is the way to go. It's kinda neat remote
controlling Applewin from hyper terminal.
Heh, one of my first tests when I wrote the TCP serial was to run
AppleWin on my PC, VNC to my Mac, and then telnet back to AppleWin
from the Mac. (Apple's telnet seems to be "raw" if no negotation takes
place, so it works well.)
Cheers,
Nick. |
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| a2retro... |
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:54 am |
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Guest
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To: aiiadict
aiiadict wrote:
Quote: On Feb 14, 7:31 am, "a2retro" <a2re... at (no spam) a2central.com.remove-8dj-this
wrote:
I guess a better test might be to hook two pc's back to back over a real
null modem cable and see if that works.
Apple Win --> ssc -> comport --> null modem cable --> pc comport -- Noice
There is the "virtual serial port", which will print to a file instead
of a COMport...
I wonder if you could tell noICE to talk through the "virtual"
COMport?
AppleWin --> SSC --> virtual COMport --> noICE
I think the "print to file" only allows one way com's. so you'd have
to figure
out a way to send data from noICE to the SSC in AW.
noICE can't be that difficult of a program to copy functionality of.
set breakpoint
single step
read registers
set registers
read RAM
write RAM
what else? How many bytes does the debugger take in the 6502
machine? We could copy the functions of that too. Seems like it
would be easier to rewrite noICE and make it freeware (so all of us
could use it!) instead of trying to hack together a few PC's, or hack
a serial driver, etc.
And if the remote debug monitor was AppleWin, it might make for a
really nice front end! Source level debug would be nice, with the
code running on a real apple II to make sure it will actually run on
real hardware!
RIch
Rich, I spent a few hrs getting some various windows virtual comport
software to work to no avail for various reasons.
Actually the SSC to TCP support is the way to go. It's kinda neat remote
controlling Applewin from hyper terminal.
I found some other Serial port redirector (TCP) software which worked
wonderfully with NoICE but it's $99 so thats not an option.
There is a version of NoICE in the works that will work with external
user written communication DLL's so I don't see it as a big effort to
get that working with the existing SSC/TCP support. It should require no
changes to Applewin from what I can see.
I am considering supporting the NoICE debugger for a couple of personal
reasons
1) I already have a licensed copy
2) Works with real and virtual hardware
3) User interface separate from the emulator - ie more screen real
estate with no screen flipping.
4) It can inject code easily to the target from the host (good if you
get your kicks from x-platform development vs directly on the iron)
5) Could support source level debugging of C code if I get the output
from cc65 tweaked properly
6) I don't want to make time (at the expense of other projects) to
develop one. :(
I don't see this replacing the built-in debugger at all but augmenting
it *if* desired. Since it needs a small stub, the built in debugger is
still the best option for no memory footprint debugging among other things.
Having said all that I do think writing a remote debugger in 6502 for
6502's is a wonderful idea :)
Glenn |
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| Michael... |
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:11 am |
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Guest
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On Feb 18, 4:37 pm, sicklittlemonkey <Nick.Westg... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: On Feb 19, 3:54 am, "a2retro" <a2re... at (no spam) a2central.com.remove-blc-this
wrote:
Actually the SSC to TCP support is the way to go. It's kinda neat remote
controlling Applewin from hyper terminal.
Heh, one of my first tests when I wrote the TCP serial was to run
AppleWin on my PC, VNC to my Mac, and then telnet back to AppleWin
from the Mac. (Apple's telnet seems to be "raw" if no negotation takes
place, so it works well.)
Cheers,
Nick.
Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. lol
That IS cool though ... :)
Michael
AppleWin Debugger Dev |
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| BLuRry... |
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:56 am |
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Guest
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Quote: Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. lol
The same thought runs through my mind when I'm working on Apple Game
Server. But fortunately I'm able to work my way through that. :-)
Quote: That IS cool though ...
Indeed! The only annoying part is the apple sends with the hi-bit set
and only sends CR, so either your telnet client has to take care of
conversion or the emulator does. Some telnet clients are easier to
configure than others (e.g. basic ones allow you to change settings
after you press CTRL+] )
Hey, any chance we can re-map the reset key? Ctrl+Pause/Brk when run
through Wine only pauses applewin -- I have no way to do a ctrl-apple-
reset (and ctrl+alt+bksp is a very incompatible key combo as well on
linux -- it kills x windows )
-B |
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| Michael... |
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:34 am |
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Guest
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On Feb 18, 7:56 pm, BLuRry <brendan.rob... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. lol
The same thought runs through my mind when I'm working on Apple Game
Server. But fortunately I'm able to work my way through that. :-)
That IS cool though ... :)
Indeed! The only annoying part is the apple sends with the hi-bit set
and only sends CR, so either your telnet client has to take care of
conversion or the emulator does. Some telnet clients are easier to
configure than others (e.g. basic ones allow you to change settings
after you press CTRL+] )
Hey, any chance we can re-map the reset key? Ctrl+Pause/Brk when run
through Wine only pauses applewin -- I have no way to do a ctrl-apple-
reset (and ctrl+alt+bksp is a very incompatible key combo as well on
linux -- it kills x windows )
-B
Ctrl-F2 is an alias for Ctr-Break. It is already in the current
nightly build: v16.0.0.2
Don't you love it when features you want are already in :)
Michael |
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| sicklittlemonkey... |
| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:01 am |
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Guest
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On Feb 19, 12:56 pm, BLuRry <brendan.rob... at (no spam) gmail.com> wrote:
Quote: Just because you CAN, doesn't mean you SHOULD. lol
The same thought runs through my mind when I'm working on Apple Game
Server. But fortunately I'm able to work my way through that.
Yes, sometimes it helps to be insa^H^H^H^H unconventional! ;-)
Quote: That IS cool though ... :)
Indeed! The only annoying part is the apple sends with the hi-bit set
and only sends CR, so either your telnet client has to take care of
conversion or the emulator does. Some telnet clients are easier to
configure than others (e.g. basic ones allow you to change settings
after you press CTRL+] )
It's serial, so set it to 7-bit and the hi-bit is gone.
I forget how I handled CR. Maybe it's a SSC option.
Or the Mac telnet client might have handled it ok.
Either way, I tried using a few "raw" network clients, because the
Windows telnet client doesn't play nicely (by default at least) with a
raw connection. The Mac telnet client does though, so that's why I
used it for testing.
Cheers,
Nick. |
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