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Noob...
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:19 pm
 
Hello everyone,

Could you point me to an appropriate Usenet group
to discuss MPEG Audio patents?

Is this an appropriate topic for this group?

I'm interested in the validity of patents on "old"
tech, Layers I and II (not Layer III, aka MP3).

Come to think of it, I'm not sure Layers I and II
are older than Layer III, since they were all defined
in 11172-3 if I'm not mistaken.

Regards.
 
Thomas Richter...
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:27 pm
 
Noob wrote:

Quote:
Could you point me to an appropriate Usenet group
to discuss MPEG Audio patents?

I'm not aware of such a group.

Quote:
Is this an appropriate topic for this group?

The legal situation is likely not, the technology is on-topic.

Quote:
I'm interested in the validity of patents on "old"
tech, Layers I and II (not Layer III, aka MP3).

The best source for MPEG audio patents and MPEG patents in general is of
course the MPEG licensing alliance:

http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/AVC/Pages/PatentList.aspx

You'll find the list of patent holders considered relevant by the ISO
also as a separate Annex of the corresponding MPEG standards. You can
buy these from the ISO, or probably get hold of a (non-binding) draft at
the internet.

Greetings,
Thomas
 
Thomas Richter...
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:30 pm
 
Thomas Richter wrote:
Quote:
Noob wrote:

The best source for MPEG audio patents and MPEG patents in general is of
course the MPEG licensing alliance:

http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/AVC/Pages/PatentList.aspx

Followup to this: The MPEG-LA also offers you a complete list of patents
that apply to MPEG-2 technology. It is trivial to find on the page and
should provide you with all the information you need. And probably much
more... (-;

So long,
Thomas
 
Keith Thompson...
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:52 am
 
Noob <root at (no spam) 127.0.0.1> writes:
Quote:
Could you point me to an appropriate Usenet group
to discuss MPEG Audio patents?

misc.int-property, maybe?

[...]

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u at (no spam) mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
 
Noob...
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:36 pm
 
Keith Thompson wrote:

Quote:
Noob wrote:

Could you point me to an appropriate Usenet group
to discuss MPEG Audio patents?

misc.int-property, maybe?

Thanks. It doesn't look very active, but there's still some
life in it. I'll give it a shot :-)

NAME
misc.int-property

CHARTER:
A group for the discussion of intellectual property rights,
that is to say the field clustering around the notions of
patents, copyrights, trade secrets, or other rights and benefits
retained by the original producer of a creative work.

This is not necessarily a computer-specific group; the recent
decision by music companies to return royalties on blank digital
tapes to composers and performers who are presumably being
harmed by digital copies is relevant. Also relevant is the
broad spectrum of user interface look-and-feel copyrights,
rights to derivative works, international copyright differences,
perhaps some discussion sneaking in about patents too. Whatever.
There's plenty to talk about and no good home for it now.

http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/projects/lpf/Patents/discussion/Comp.patents.charter

(I can't find comp.patents on AIOE, and misc.legal.computing
looks abandoned.)

Regards.
 
Noob...
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:53 pm
 
Thomas Richter wrote:

Quote:
Noob wrote:

Could you point me to an appropriate Usenet group
to discuss MPEG Audio patents?

I'm not aware of such a group.

I'll try the one Keith suggested.

Quote:
Is this an appropriate topic for this group?

The legal situation is likely not, the technology is on-topic.

Given that ISO/IEC 11172 (MPEG-1) was published in 1993, I would
have assumed that all patents required to implement MPEG-1 would
necessarily have been filed *BEFORE* 1993... Such is not the case
though. (And my mind boggles)

Is it possible that later revisions of MPEG-1 made use of new
tech, requiring new patents?

Quote:
I'm interested in the validity of patents on "old"
tech, Layers I and II (not Layer III, aka MP3).

The best source for MPEG audio patents and MPEG patents in general
is of course the MPEG licensing alliance:

You'd think ;-)

But it appears that MPEG-LA only deals with systems and video
(parts 1 and 2) not with audio (part 3).

MPEG Audio licensing seems to be handled by Sisvel.
http://www.sisvel.com/english/licensingprograms/mpegaudio/introduction

And Layer III (MP3) is handled by yet another entity, IIUC.

Quote:
http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/AVC/Pages/PatentList.aspx

Obviously, AVC is video only, but even their MPEG-2 page is clear.

"MPEG LA's MPEG-2 Patent Portfolio License provides access to patents
that are essential to the MPEG-2 Video and Systems coding standards"

Quote:
You'll find the list of patent holders considered relevant by the ISO
also as a separate Annex of the corresponding MPEG standards. You can
buy these from the ISO, or probably get hold of a (non-binding) draft at
the internet.

I will look for it, thanks for the pointer.

Regards.
 
Thomas Richter...
Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:38 pm
 
Noob schrieb:

Quote:
Is this an appropriate topic for this group?

The legal situation is likely not, the technology is on-topic.

Given that ISO/IEC 11172 (MPEG-1) was published in 1993, I would
have assumed that all patents required to implement MPEG-1 would
necessarily have been filed *BEFORE* 1993... Such is not the case
though. (And my mind boggles)

You should understand that a standard goes through various revisions and
amendments (AMDs) and that such AMDs may add technology. AMDs are
brought into a standard by a "request for minor improvement", so it
should contribute to a technology, but not change the technology
completely. Thus, you'll likely find in the current (in-force) standard
chapters and extensions that require such extended patents, but the
patents that apply to the base technology should be from 1993 or before.
Note that patents in the US can be dated ahead (i.e. you file the patent
at 1994, but it is valid from up to 6 months earlier, the date of
invention), so some care must be taken.

Quote:
Is it possible that later revisions of MPEG-1 made use of new
tech, requiring new patents?

Yes. AMDs and corrigendums (CORs) can be added at any time to the specs.

Quote:
The best source for MPEG audio patents and MPEG patents in general
is of course the MPEG licensing alliance:

You'd think ;-)

But it appears that MPEG-LA only deals with systems and video
(parts 1 and 2) not with audio (part 3).

Sorry, haven't checked.

Quote:
MPEG Audio licensing seems to be handled by Sisvel.
http://www.sisvel.com/english/licensingprograms/mpegaudio/introduction

And Layer III (MP3) is handled by yet another entity, IIUC.

Mostly the Fraunhofer IIS patents. AFAIK they are about to run out
really soon now.

Quote:
You'll find the list of patent holders considered relevant by the ISO
also as a separate Annex of the corresponding MPEG standards. You can
buy these from the ISO, or probably get hold of a (non-binding) draft at
the internet.

I will look for it, thanks for the pointer.

Again, please take care that ISO is not a legal entity and cannot ensure
you that this list is complete. ISO requests from members to provide
patent informations, but for parties not participating in the ISO
process, you never know. There is always a chance of a patent submariner.

Greetings,
Thomas
 
 
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