 |
|
| Computers Forum Index » Computer - Databases - MS Access » Access for Mac users... |
|
Page 1 of 1 |
|
| Author |
Message |
| septimus... |
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:41 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
I have a client, a small business, who is thinking about switching to
all Macs but are not sure what to do with their existing Access
database. They've asked whether it's possible to publish the db on the
web so they update and view the data with a browser.
It would be nice if they could work in Access with Live Office the way
you can with Word, Excel and Power Point. But I know that's not
possible. The options I can think of at this point are:
1. Windows SharePoint Services - We could move the db to SharePoint
(converting tables to lists, etc.) if they were willing to invest in
the server and software. (I don't think they have SharePoint now.)
They're open to the idea of virtualizing a Mac OS X Server to run
Windows Server if it's just for hosting the data. They would also
consider running virtual machines on their Mac clients so they could
run Access locally.
2. Active Server Pages - This would take some development, and they'd
still need to have a Windows Server or operating system to put the
Access database on, correct?
Any options I'm missing? What would you do in this situation? Any
suggestions and thoughts would be most appreciated. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Banana... |
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:54 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Well, Access 2010 is slated to have web publishing...
http://tinyurl.com/Access2010Demo
Note you'll need Sharepoint for that. Further note there are various
options to use Sharepoint (e.g. use a hosting provider, roll your own
server, etc)
Finally, if you have lot of complex logic and processing, it may be more
practical to use FileMaker instead for the cross platform compatibility.
septimus wrote:
Quote: I have a client, a small business, who is thinking about switching to
all Macs but are not sure what to do with their existing Access
database. They've asked whether it's possible to publish the db on the
web so they update and view the data with a browser.
It would be nice if they could work in Access with Live Office the way
you can with Word, Excel and Power Point. But I know that's not
possible. The options I can think of at this point are:
1. Windows SharePoint Services - We could move the db to SharePoint
(converting tables to lists, etc.) if they were willing to invest in
the server and software. (I don't think they have SharePoint now.)
They're open to the idea of virtualizing a Mac OS X Server to run
Windows Server if it's just for hosting the data. They would also
consider running virtual machines on their Mac clients so they could
run Access locally.
2. Active Server Pages - This would take some development, and they'd
still need to have a Windows Server or operating system to put the
Access database on, correct?
Any options I'm missing? What would you do in this situation? Any
suggestions and thoughts would be most appreciated. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Banana... |
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:58 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Shame on me for not mentioning the 3rd option:
You could look at using Terminal Server or Citrix or a similar solution
and run all Access application via a remote session so it no longer
matter what platform you are using, and if I remember it correctly,
thee's a RDP client for mac but you will want to check it out first.
Banana wrote:
Quote: Well, Access 2010 is slated to have web publishing...
http://tinyurl.com/Access2010Demo
Note you'll need Sharepoint for that. Further note there are various
options to use Sharepoint (e.g. use a hosting provider, roll your own
server, etc)
Finally, if you have lot of complex logic and processing, it may be more
practical to use FileMaker instead for the cross platform compatibility.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| paii, Ron... |
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:00 pm |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"septimus" <ovengravel at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:60b434bc-671b-4698-9ebf-eda420e80dad at (no spam) m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Quote: I have a client, a small business, who is thinking about switching to
all Macs but are not sure what to do with their existing Access
database. They've asked whether it's possible to publish the db on the
web so they update and view the data with a browser.
It would be nice if they could work in Access with Live Office the way
you can with Word, Excel and Power Point. But I know that's not
possible. The options I can think of at this point are:
1. Windows SharePoint Services - We could move the db to SharePoint
(converting tables to lists, etc.) if they were willing to invest in
the server and software. (I don't think they have SharePoint now.)
They're open to the idea of virtualizing a Mac OS X Server to run
Windows Server if it's just for hosting the data. They would also
consider running virtual machines on their Mac clients so they could
run Access locally.
2. Active Server Pages - This would take some development, and they'd
still need to have a Windows Server or operating system to put the
Access database on, correct?
Any options I'm missing? What would you do in this situation? Any
suggestions and thoughts would be most appreciated.
Windows Terminal Server and Citrix for the Mac clients. It would be
expensive, approximately $100 per workstation for TS + Citrix CALs plus the
windows server. But would allow you to work with Windows apps on the Mac. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Tony Toews [MVP]... |
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:16 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Banana <Banana at (no spam) Republic.com> wrote:
Quote: Shame on me for not mentioning the 3rd option:
You could look at using Terminal Server or Citrix or a similar solution
and run all Access application via a remote session so it no longer
matter what platform you are using, and if I remember it correctly,
thee's a RDP client for mac but you will want to check it out first.
FWIW someone once wrote a DOS based RDP client. I couldn't believe that when I read
it.
Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Tony's Main MS Access pages - http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/
For a free, convenient utility to keep your users FEs and other files
updated see http://www.autofeupdater.com/
Granite Fleet Manager http://www.granitefleet.com/ |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Banana... |
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:10 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Tony Toews [MVP] wrote:
Quote: FWIW someone once wrote a DOS based RDP client. I couldn't believe that when I read
it.
Tony
Huh. Goes to show that some things just never die. ;)
I bet DOS and a RDP would positively scream on a reasonably modern
hardware. (Though I'm not sure if anyone bothered to write support for
64-bit-ness or multi-threading into DOS?) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| septimus... |
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:34 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Thanks, everybody, some great responses. Sounds like the options are
(1) RDP, (2) Sharepoint, (3) active server pages, (4) Windows
emulation software, or (5) just rebuilding the thing in some other
platform (like Filemaker or PHP/MySQL).
I have a few questions:
1. Do you need Citrix to use the Windows Terminal Server from the Mac
RDP client? I've used Windows Terminal Services for remote Access
databases before (without Citrix) and the performance was not as quick
and efficient as I'd hoped. I'm also wondering if you can use a
virtualized Mac OS X server as a Windows Terminal Server.
2. The Sharepoint web publishing on Access 2010 sound promising.
Anybody know what the expected release date is? I've heard Sharepoint
comes packaged with Windows Server? Wondering what the costs would be
for a company who does not currently have Sharepoint. Also, is it
worth using Sharepoint if the only reason is to run an Access
database?
3. What do we think about the possibility of a web-based frontend with
active server pages? Worthwhile? I haven't done this, so I'm not
entirely clear how this would work. Would we need a Windows server?
Thanks again! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| David W. Fenton... |
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:40 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Banana <Banana at (no spam) Republic.com> wrote in
news:4AF028E2.7030502 at (no spam) Republic.com:
Quote: You could look at using Terminal Server or Citrix or a similar
solution and run all Access application via a remote session so it
no longer matter what platform you are using, and if I remember it
correctly, thee's a RDP client for mac but you will want to check
it out first.
Yes, there definitely is a Mac RDP client (as well as a Linux one),
and the Mac version was updated to a new, more efficient version in
the last couple of months.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/ |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| David W. Fenton... |
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:44 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"paii, Ron" <none at (no spam) no.com> wrote in
news:hcp9h6$o9t$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org:
Quote: It would be
expensive, approximately $100 per workstation for TS + Citrix CALs
plus the windows server. But would allow you to work with Windows
apps on the Mac.
I think $100/workstation is rather high, unless you're provisioning
a new server just for this purpose. The CALs are only $40 or so.
Compared to buying the Windows emulation software to run on the
Macs, or re-architecting the app for Sharepoint, or recreating it
from scratch as a browser-based app, that's pretty darned cheap.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/ |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| Banana... |
Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:48 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
David W. Fenton wrote:
Quote: Yes, there definitely is a Mac RDP client (as well as a Linux one),
and the Mac version was updated to a new, more efficient version in
the last couple of months.
Awesome. It's good to know it's updated as well. Thanks for sharing. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| David W. Fenton... |
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:49 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
septimus <ovengravel at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in
news:d3a5bdbd-0c73-47e3-87c6-44a6b2a32a29 at (no spam) f10g2000vbl.googlegroups.co
m:
Quote: 1. Do you need Citrix to use the Windows Terminal Server from the
Mac RDP client?
Windows Terminal Server is based on technology licensed from Citrix,
but you don't need to pay Citrix anything to use WTS. I'm foggy on
exactly why anyone should pay Citrix even one red cent, but
apparently, their version of WTS does load balancing and other
high-end enterprisey stuff better than plain vanilla WTS.
So, no, you don't need Citrix. All you need is a Windows server,
appropriately provisioned and the CALs to allow connections from the
RDP clients.
Quote: I've used Windows Terminal Services for remote Access
databases before (without Citrix) and the performance was not as
quick and efficient as I'd hoped. I'm also wondering if you can
use a virtualized Mac OS X server as a Windows Terminal Server.
I use RDP to plain vanilla WTS all the time, and it's perfectly fast
and usable. If you've had problems, it's likely because of
inadequate bandwidth, or some bottleneck somewhere between you and
the server. I don't know that Citrix can fix that.
Quote: 2. The Sharepoint web publishing on Access 2010 sound promising.
Anybody know what the expected release date is? I've heard
Sharepoint comes packaged with Windows Server? Wondering what the
costs would be for a company who does not currently have
Sharepoint. Also, is it worth using Sharepoint if the only reason
is to run an Access database?
The cost is very, very high, in fact, if you use anything very
significant. To me, there's no contest here -- WTS requires no
development costs, only infrastructure, and that would likely be
building on top of something that's already in place (and that could
also be useful for other things). Sharepoint, not so much.
Quote: 3. What do we think about the possibility of a web-based frontend
with active server pages? Worthwhile? I haven't done this, so I'm
not entirely clear how this would work. Would we need a Windows
server?
It would requiring chucking everything you have and starting from
scratch. This would be even sillier than the Sharepoint approach
(which I hope you realize is only viable on the the *new* version of
Access that isn't out yet, and with the *new* version of Sharepoint
server that goes with it), seems to me.
I can't see how there's any contest here. WTS is going to be easier.
It's going to be cheaper by a huge margin. It's going to require no
alterations to your existing app, no changes that might lead to
slightly different behavior, no rebuilding from scratch. It's ready
to go now, not something you have to wait for. It will require no
retraining of your users nor any alteration to existing workflows.
I can't see why anyone would consider anything else.
Of course, I think the decision to move to Macs for any non-creative
organization is unwise to begin with, but it sounds like that ship
has already sailed.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/ |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| David W. Fenton... |
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:52 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
"paii, Ron" <none at (no spam) no.com> wrote in
news:hcrtt1$ej8$1 at (no spam) news.eternal-september.org:
Quote: The Terminal server CAL is $40. If you also need to purchase CALs
for Citrix.
To me, Citrix is one of those FUD technologies that has somehow
convinced people that it is necessary for have a terminal server,
but it's not. I simply do not understand why anyone would give
Citrix one red cent if you're not at the level of having to host
100s of users. For a single terminal server with a dozen users or
fewer, I just can't see why anyone would go with Citrix.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/ |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| septimus... |
Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:17 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
Banana wrote: "As for having Sharepoint; you don't have to buy
Sharepoint; you can just sign up with a hosting provider that offers
Sharepoint. I do not know
enough about its licensing/hosting charges to provide a good answer."
David Fenton wrote: "The cost [of using SharePoint] is very, very
high, in fact, if you use anything very significant."
I'm a little unclear on how this works. You don't need a Windows
server if you sign up with a provider that offers SharePoint? Is that
still very expensive? (Remember, this is a very small business.)
I think the client would probably need to buy a Windows Terminal
Server. (A previous client of mine bought a WTS for $40K and as I
mentioned the performance was very disappointing. Probably did need
more bandwidth.) You can't have a Mac server double as a Windows
Terminal Server by using virtualization software? |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
| David W. Fenton... |
Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:23 am |
|
|
|
Guest
|
septimus <ovengravel at (no spam) yahoo.com> wrote in
news:136b7f52-522d-4152-8b66-29e615b14854 at (no spam) p32g2000vbi.googlegroups.co
m:
Quote: Banana wrote: "As for having Sharepoint; you don't have to buy
Sharepoint; you can just sign up with a hosting provider that
offers Sharepoint. I do not know
enough about its licensing/hosting charges to provide a good
answer."
David Fenton wrote: "The cost [of using SharePoint] is very, very
high, in fact, if you use anything very significant."
I'm a little unclear on how this works. You don't need a Windows
server if you sign up with a provider that offers SharePoint? Is
that still very expensive? (Remember, this is a very small
business.)
The free versions are limited in functionality.
Also, they have the problem of being on the other side of the
Internet, so if your net connection goes down, you can't use your
app.
As I understand it, the fully functional Sharepoint server version
is quite expensive, both in terms of the server software cost and
the CALs. Whether or not you'd need the full version is something
you'd have to determine. I'm pretty foggy on what's what in
Sharepoint as I just don't consider it worth using for anything
Access-related in its current form.
However, if Albert Kallal's enthusiasm for Access 2010 and the
corresponding new version of Sharepoint is warranted, then that
equation will change. The key thing for me is that the new version
supports RI. That indicates to me that MS was really listening to
Access developers and others who were skeptical of the platform for
being so weak in terms of data integrity.
That's but one of the major new features that Albert has been
enthusing about.
I'm still concerned about tying your Access app to a Microsoft-only
server platform, and one that runs only on Windows servers (as
opposed to being installable on a workstation in a peer-to-peer
environment), and I'm still very skeptical about exposing an IIS
server to the Internet (I just don't consider it safe). But if it
means you can distribute an Access app via the web, that's a huge
win for Access, as it's been one of the chief stumbling blocks for a
lot of people who are otherwise interested in the RAD environment
that Access provides.
Quote: I think the client would probably need to buy a Windows Terminal
Server. (A previous client of mine bought a WTS for $40K and as I
mentioned the performance was very disappointing.
That number is completely insane. A client of mine implemented a
standalone WTS for 10 users in 2004 at a cost of $4K, literally
1/10th of the cost you're quoting (sure, it was a rack server, so
minimal expense, but it was also top-of-the-line Compaq hardware).
And that included the CALs. The machine was provisioned with minimal
disk space because there was plenty of that available on the local
LAN, and the Access app's data file and the QuickBooks files were
not stored on the Terminal Server -- all that was stored there was
the copies of the Access front ends for the Access users.
But disk space is also incredibly cheap, unless you're doing
bulletproof RAID, and even then, it's just not that expensive in
comparison to what it used to be on a per GB basis.
In an environment where there is no Windows file server, you'd
probably want to provision a new server to function as file server
as well as WTS, but the additional cost for that is not something
that should be counted against the WTS project, seems to me -- it's
additional $$ you put into the project to get additional
functionality that is very useful in its own right.
Quote: Probably did need
more bandwidth.) You can't have a Mac server double as a Windows
Terminal Server by using virtualization software?
I don't know. I'm no fan of running Jet/ACE on anything but a native
Windows file system, so I wouldn't recommend that, even if it worked
fine from the standpoint of the server running without a hitch.
In any event, if you've got a box dedicated to this function, it
would seem to me to make little sense at all to run it virtualized
on a different OS. I can't think of a single advantage to doing that
with a server in this kind of small office environment.
--
David W. Fenton http://www.dfenton.com/
usenet at dfenton dot com http://www.dfenton.com/DFA/ |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
All times are GMT
The time now is Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:45 am
|
|