Hello comp.dsp,

I just watched this movie (yes, all 2 hrs 24 minutes of it) and would
like to know the opinions of others here on the veracity of the
information presented and the correctness of the allegations.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

Are there really a network of world powers (banks) vying for control of
the nations, or is this just another conspiracy theory? Or is it
something up, down, or in between these two extremes?

I'll go ahead and give you my suspicion: largely true. I can't comment
with any certainty since I simply don't know all the facts.

Questions/Comments:

  1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government organization?!?
  If so, shocking to me.

  2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
  manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".

  3. If true, what should we do about it?

You and your fellow Yanks are in for a rude awakening. The petrol

On 10/25/2009 2:27 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:
......
The first one should be, does life have meaning?

Jerry

That's easy, 42.

On 10/25/2009 2:27 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:



HardySpicer wrote:
On Oct 25, 1:45 pm, Jerry Avins <j... at (no spam) ieee.org> wrote:
Randy Yates wrote:
Hello comp.dsp,
I just watched this movie (yes, all 2 hrs 24 minutes of it) and would
like to know the opinions of others here on the veracity of the
information presented and the correctness of the allegations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU
Are there really a network of world powers (banks) vying for control of
the nations, or is this just another conspiracy theory? Or is it
something up, down, or in between these two extremes?
I'll go ahead and give you my suspicion: largely true. I can't comment
with any certainty since I simply don't know all the facts.
Questions/Comments:
1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government organization?!?
If so, shocking to me.
Of course it's part of the government. Congress set it up to be
independent of day-to-day Executive and Congressional control, but those
two branches of government jointly appoint the Bank's governing board..

2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".
I know this: glaciers the world over are retreating. Polar ice sheets
are breaking up and shrinking in the arctic and antarctic. Lakes on
which we skated every winter 40 years ago rarely have any ice at all
now, and skating hasn't been possible for about 25 years. The Sahara
Desert's southern border is moving southward even faster than the Ross
ice Sheet is retreating northward, causing widespread famine.

3. If true, what should we do about it?
About global warming? About those who claim it isn't real? Or what?

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

It maybe real but are humans the cause?

Do you know that they are? That they aren't? Should you find out?

Given that there've been very warm periods on the planet long before
humans industrialized and built big heat-island cities, there doesn't
seem to be much reason to conclude that whatever is happening is caused
by anthropogenic CO2 emissions.  "Human caused" is pretty broad, and
might encompass such effects as the fact that many measuring stations
have evolved from being rural to being in the middle of suburban or
urban heat islands, or just that we've wound up paving a noticeable
fraction of the land mass.  A more pointed question, in my mind, is
whether CO2 emissions have much to do with it, particularly since forest
fires and volcanoes have historically spewed out far more of it than
people tend to.  I have a hard time calling something so naturally
prevalent a "pollutant".

And cows.  Don't get started about the cows.

Regardless, the science is pretty shaky.  I haven't watched Randy's
linked vid, and probably won't, but it's not hard to look around and see
some strong political motives for introducing things like cap and trade.
  There's a lot of wealth distribution that could be done, and the
people who would benefit from such things are motivated.  You don't need
conspiracies for this stuff to happen, just an economic (or social)
motive, and that exists.

When I'm asked what the meaning of life is, I say that that's the
_second_ question. The first one should be, does life have meaning?

Jerry

That's easy, 42.

--
Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms
Abineau Communicationshttp://www.abineau.com

Randy Yates wrote:
Hello comp.dsp,

I just watched this movie (yes, all 2 hrs 24 minutes of it) and would
like to know the opinions of others here on the veracity of the
information presented and the correctness of the allegations.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

Are there really a network of world powers (banks) vying for control of
the nations, or is this just another conspiracy theory? Or is it
something up, down, or in between these two extremes?

I'll go ahead and give you my suspicion: largely true. I can't comment
with any certainty since I simply don't know all the facts.

Questions/Comments:

  1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government organization?!?
  If so, shocking to me.

Of course it's part of the government. Congress set it up to be
independent of day-to-day Executive and Congressional control, but those
two branches of government jointly appoint the Bank's governing board.

  2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
  manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".

I know this: glaciers the world over are retreating. Polar ice sheets
are breaking up and shrinking in the arctic and antarctic. Lakes on
which we skated every winter 40 years ago rarely have any ice at all
now, and skating hasn't been possible for about 25 years. The Sahara
Desert's southern border is moving southward even faster than the Ross
ice Sheet is retreating northward, causing widespread famine.

  3. If true, what should we do about it?

About global warming? About those who claim it isn't real? Or what?

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Hello comp.dsp,

I just watched this movie (yes, all 2 hrs 24 minutes of it) and would
like to know the opinions of others here on the veracity of the
information presented and the correctness of the allegations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

Are there really a network of world powers (banks) vying for control of
the nations, or is this just another conspiracy theory? Or is it
something up, down, or in between these two extremes?

I'll go ahead and give you my suspicion: largely true. I can't comment
with any certainty since I simply don't know all the facts.

Questions/Comments:

1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government organization?!?
If so, shocking to me.

2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".

3. If true, what should we do about it?

On Oct 25, 5:19 pm, Eric Jacobsen <eric.jacob... at (no spam) ieee.org> wrote:



On 10/25/2009 2:27 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:

HardySpicer wrote:
On Oct 25, 1:45 pm, Jerry Avins <j... at (no spam) ieee.org> wrote:
Randy Yates wrote:
Hello comp.dsp,
I just watched this movie (yes, all 2 hrs 24 minutes of it) and would
like to know the opinions of others here on the veracity of the
information presented and the correctness of the allegations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU
Are there really a network of world powers (banks) vying for control of
the nations, or is this just another conspiracy theory? Or is it
something up, down, or in between these two extremes?
I'll go ahead and give you my suspicion: largely true. I can't comment
with any certainty since I simply don't know all the facts.
Questions/Comments:
1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government organization?!?
If so, shocking to me.
Of course it's part of the government. Congress set it up to be
independent of day-to-day Executive and Congressional control, but those
two branches of government jointly appoint the Bank's governing board.

2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".
I know this: glaciers the world over are retreating. Polar ice sheets
are breaking up and shrinking in the arctic and antarctic. Lakes on
which we skated every winter 40 years ago rarely have any ice at all
now, and skating hasn't been possible for about 25 years. The Sahara
Desert's southern border is moving southward even faster than the Ross
ice Sheet is retreating northward, causing widespread famine.

3. If true, what should we do about it?
About global warming? About those who claim it isn't real? Or what?

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

It maybe real but are humans the cause?

Do you know that they are? That they aren't? Should you find out?

Given that there've been very warm periods on the planet long before
humans industrialized and built big heat-island cities, there doesn't
seem to be much reason to conclude that whatever is happening is caused
by anthropogenic CO2 emissions.  "Human caused" is pretty broad, and
might encompass such effects as the fact that many measuring stations
have evolved from being rural to being in the middle of suburban or
urban heat islands, or just that we've wound up paving a noticeable
fraction of the land mass.  A more pointed question, in my mind, is
whether CO2 emissions have much to do with it, particularly since forest
fires and volcanoes have historically spewed out far more of it than
people tend to.  I have a hard time calling something so naturally
prevalent a "pollutant".

And cows.  Don't get started about the cows.

Regardless, the science is pretty shaky.  I haven't watched Randy's
linked vid, and probably won't, but it's not hard to look around and see
some strong political motives for introducing things like cap and trade..
  There's a lot of wealth distribution that could be done, and the
people who would benefit from such things are motivated.  You don't need
conspiracies for this stuff to happen, just an economic (or social)
motive, and that exists.

When I'm asked what the meaning of life is, I say that that's the
_second_ question. The first one should be, does life have meaning?

Jerry

That's easy, 42.

--
Eric Jacobsen
Minister of Algorithms
Abineau Communicationshttp://www.abineau.com

Well said.

In addition I look at it in terms of three conditional questions

1.  Is global warming happening.  Not clear.

2. If it is happening is man causing it.  Even more unclear, if 1 is
true.

3.  If man is causing it is there really any chance of man stopping
it?

I believe the answer to this is essentially, no.  With China and India
and other huge population centers just now getting a taste of the
benefits of life with inexpensive energy, an with so much energy being
held by third world countries wanting to maximize their cash "crop", I
think that there is no real chance of stopping it.

This question (3) does not even come into play until 1 and 2 are
answered.

Furthermore, I believe that if the powers that be really really felt
in their heart that this was a serious threat to mankind, they would
be pushing nuclear energy.  It is the only known way to meet the
current energy needs in a way that can measurably reduce CO2
emissions.  Because there is not an outcry for nuclear energy by the
forces that push the global warming scare, I conclude that they are
not really very serious about it.  I believe it is all about stripping
individuals of their individualism , of which cheap energy ( should I
say true market priced energy) is the foundation for it in our current
world.

On Oct 25, 1:45 pm, Jerry Avins <j... at (no spam) ieee.org> wrote:
Randy Yates wrote:
Hello comp.dsp,
I just watched this movie (yes, all 2 hrs 24 minutes of it) and would
like to know the opinions of others here on the veracity of the
information presented and the correctness of the allegations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU
Are there really a network of world powers (banks) vying for control of
the nations, or is this just another conspiracy theory? Or is it
something up, down, or in between these two extremes?
I'll go ahead and give you my suspicion: largely true. I can't comment
with any certainty since I simply don't know all the facts.
Questions/Comments:
1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government organization?!?
If so, shocking to me.
Of course it's part of the government. Congress set it up to be
independent of day-to-day Executive and Congressional control, but those
two branches of government jointly appoint the Bank's governing board.

2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".
I know this: glaciers the world over are retreating. Polar ice sheets
are breaking up and shrinking in the arctic and antarctic. Lakes on
which we skated every winter 40 years ago rarely have any ice at all
now, and skating hasn't been possible for about 25 years. The Sahara
Desert's southern border is moving southward even faster than the Ross
ice Sheet is retreating northward, causing widespread famine.

3. If true, what should we do about it?
About global warming? About those who claim it isn't real? Or what?

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

It maybe real but are humans the cause?

Randy Yates wrote:
Hello comp.dsp,

I just watched this movie (yes, all 2 hrs 24 minutes of it) and would
like to know the opinions of others here on the veracity of the
information presented and the correctness of the allegations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

Are there really a network of world powers (banks) vying for control
of
the nations, or is this just another conspiracy theory? Or is it
something up, down, or in between these two extremes?

I'll go ahead and give you my suspicion: largely true. I can't comment
with any certainty since I simply don't know all the facts.

Questions/Comments:

1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government
organization?!?
If so, shocking to me.

Of course it's part of the government. Congress set it up to be
independent of day-to-day Executive and Congressional control, but those

two branches of government jointly appoint the Bank's governing board.

2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".

I know this: glaciers the world over are retreating. Polar ice sheets
are breaking up and shrinking in the arctic and antarctic. Lakes on
which we skated every winter 40 years ago rarely have any ice at all
now, and skating hasn't been possible for about 25 years. The Sahara
Desert's southern border is moving southward even faster than the Ross
ice Sheet is retreating northward, causing widespread famine.

3. If true, what should we do about it?

About global warming? About those who claim it isn't real? Or what?

Randy Yates wrote:
Hello comp.dsp,

I just watched this movie (yes, all 2 hrs 24 minutes of it) and would
like to know the opinions of others here on the veracity of the
information presented and the correctness of the allegations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

Are there really a network of world powers (banks) vying for control
of
the nations, or is this just another conspiracy theory? Or is it
something up, down, or in between these two extremes?

I'll go ahead and give you my suspicion: largely true. I can't comment
with any certainty since I simply don't know all the facts.

Questions/Comments:

1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government
organization?!?
If so, shocking to me.
Of course it's part of the government. Congress set it up to be
independent of day-to-day Executive and Congressional control, but those

two branches of government jointly appoint the Bank's governing board.

I thought US courts had explicitly ruled that Federal Reserve Banks are
"independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations", and
lack the oversight needed to be considered a federal agency.

Most documentaries about the US financial system describe the Federal
Reserve as being an independent body.

2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".
I know this: glaciers the world over are retreating. Polar ice sheets
are breaking up and shrinking in the arctic and antarctic. Lakes on
which we skated every winter 40 years ago rarely have any ice at all
now, and skating hasn't been possible for about 25 years. The Sahara
Desert's southern border is moving southward even faster than the Ross
ice Sheet is retreating northward, causing widespread famine.

I know for sure that the climate in Hong Kong has changed dramatically in
the 18 years I've lived there. What I don't know is why. I seems pretty
likely its our fault, but the subject is so emotionally charged you can't
trust anything anyone says.

3. If true, what should we do about it?
About global warming? About those who claim it isn't real? Or what?

Avoid beachfront property. Our home is well up on a hill overlooking the
sea.

steveu wrote:
Randy Yates wrote:
Hello comp.dsp,

I just watched this movie (yes, all 2 hrs 24 minutes of it) and
would
like to know the opinions of others here on the veracity of the
information presented and the correctness of the allegations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

Are there really a network of world powers (banks) vying for control
of
the nations, or is this just another conspiracy theory? Or is it
something up, down, or in between these two extremes?

I'll go ahead and give you my suspicion: largely true. I can't
comment
with any certainty since I simply don't know all the facts.

Questions/Comments:

1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government
organization?!?
If so, shocking to me.
Of course it's part of the government. Congress set it up to be
independent of day-to-day Executive and Congressional control, but
those

two branches of government jointly appoint the Bank's governing
board.

I thought US courts had explicitly ruled that Federal Reserve Banks
are
"independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations",
and
lack the oversight needed to be considered a federal agency.

Most documentaries about the US financial system describe the Federal
Reserve as being an independent body.

Look at a dollar bill of any denomination. It will carry the legend
"Federal Reserve Note". I strongly think that our money is issued by the

federal government. The Supreme Court is also an independent body.

2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".
I know this: glaciers the world over are retreating. Polar ice sheets

are breaking up and shrinking in the arctic and antarctic. Lakes on
which we skated every winter 40 years ago rarely have any ice at all
now, and skating hasn't been possible for about 25 years. The Sahara
Desert's southern border is moving southward even faster than the Ross

ice Sheet is retreating northward, causing widespread famine.

I know for sure that the climate in Hong Kong has changed dramatically
in
the 18 years I've lived there. What I don't know is why. I seems
pretty
likely its our fault, but the subject is so emotionally charged you
can't
trust anything anyone says.

3. If true, what should we do about it?
About global warming? About those who claim it isn't real? Or what?

Avoid beachfront property. Our home is well up on a hill overlooking
the
sea.

With higher ground behind? Otherwise, it may end up on an island.

HardySpicer wrote:
On Oct 25, 1:45 pm, Jerry Avins <j... at (no spam) ieee.org> wrote:
Randy Yates wrote:
Hello comp.dsp,
I just watched this movie (yes, all 2 hrs 24 minutes of it) and would
like to know the opinions of others here on the veracity of the
information presented and the correctness of the allegations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU
Are there really a network of world powers (banks) vying for control of
the nations, or is this just another conspiracy theory? Or is it
something up, down, or in between these two extremes?
I'll go ahead and give you my suspicion: largely true. I can't comment
with any certainty since I simply don't know all the facts.
Questions/Comments:
1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government organization?!?
If so, shocking to me.
Of course it's part of the government. Congress set it up to be
independent of day-to-day Executive and Congressional control, but those
two branches of government jointly appoint the Bank's governing board.

2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".
I know this: glaciers the world over are retreating. Polar ice sheets
are breaking up and shrinking in the arctic and antarctic. Lakes on
which we skated every winter 40 years ago rarely have any ice at all
now, and skating hasn't been possible for about 25 years. The Sahara
Desert's southern border is moving southward even faster than the Ross
ice Sheet is retreating northward, causing widespread famine.

3. If true, what should we do about it?
About global warming? About those who claim it isn't real? Or what?

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

It maybe real but are humans the cause?

Do you know that they are? That they aren't? Should you find out?

When I'm asked what the meaning of life is, I say that that's the
_second_ question. The first one should be, does life have meaning?

Jerry

On 10/25/2009 2:27 PM, Jerry Avins wrote:
HardySpicer wrote:

It maybe real but are humans the cause?

Do you know that they are? That they aren't? Should you find out?

Given that there've been very warm periods on the planet long before
humans industrialized and built big heat-island cities, there doesn't
seem to be much reason to conclude that whatever is happening is caused
by anthropogenic CO2 emissions. "Human caused" is pretty broad, and
might encompass such effects as the fact that many measuring stations
have evolved from being rural to being in the middle of suburban or
urban heat islands, or just that we've wound up paving a noticeable
fraction of the land mass. A more pointed question, in my mind, is
whether CO2 emissions have much to do with it, particularly since forest
fires and volcanoes have historically spewed out far more of it than
people tend to. I have a hard time calling something so naturally
prevalent a "pollutant".

And cows. Don't get started about the cows.

Regardless, the science is pretty shaky.

When I'm asked what the meaning of life is, I say that that's the
_second_ question. The first one should be, does life have meaning?

Jerry

That's easy, 42.

3. If man is causing it is there really any chance of man stopping it?
[...]
This question (3) does not even come into play until 1 and 2 are
answered.