Rune Allnor wrote:

Global warming is a fact.

3. If true, what should we do about it?

Keep cool. Our minds, that is. We should certainly *not* start
messing with global-scale temperature altering panic actions,

Think positive. New ice age would be much worse :-)

VLV

Vladimir Vassilevsky wrote:


Rune Allnor wrote:

Global warming is a fact.

3. If true, what should we do about it?

Keep cool. Our minds, that is. We should certainly *not* start
messing with global-scale temperature altering panic actions,

Think positive. New ice age would be much worse :-)

VLV

IIRC, back in 50's, I was taught a global temp rise
preceded/precipitated an "Ice Age" ;/

If you were offered a few million quid but part of the price was a few
thousand people had to die in some remote country that you don't care
about would you be tempted to go along with it?

On 25 Okt, 20:39, Randy Yates<ya... at (no spam) ieee.org> wrote:

2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".

What was 'manufactured'? Global warming? The consequent 'crisis'?

Global warming is a fact. I have some photos of myself at age 6,
where the family is waiting to cross a mountain in winter. The
road is cleared, but there is 5 or 6 meters from the surface
of the road up to the top of cut through the snow dune. Until
about 20 years ago, one would expect the ground to be covered
by at least 1 meter of snow at any given time between mid October
and late March. These days it might fall 1 meter of snow during
the winter.

The question is why it happens. I don't believe humans have
anything to do with it. Henrik Svensmark's theory

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrik_Svensmark

is a far better explanation, as it accounts for solar influence
factors that contribute to terrestial atmospheric temperature.
Remember that it is the sun that drives the whole show, so one
would be very arrogant to dismiss it as a governing factor, as
'traditional' climate models appear to do.

3. If true, what should we do about it?

Keep cool. Our minds, that is. We should certainly *not* start
messing with global-scale temperature altering panic actions,
like distributing mirrors in space to reduce the amount of solar
rays that reach the planet. If such projects work (the people
who propose these things might be mad to suggest them, but are
certainly smart enough to get the numbers right and come up with
a working system), there would be *real* misery and mayhem.

Rune

Darrell wrote:
It is interesting to look at manufacturing in the U.S.  All the "hi
tech" stuff is basically still built domestically.

Like what, for example?

Darrell wrote:
On Oct 27, 11:14 am, Vladimir Vassilevsky <nos... at (no spam) nowhere.com> wrote:
Darrell wrote:
It is interesting to look at manufacturing in the U.S.  All the "hi
tech" stuff is basically still built domestically.
Like what, for example?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States#Manufacturing

If wikipedia isn't a reputable source, here's a blog post for you:

http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/ViewPost.aspx?bpid=16947&t=010028543233374...

Summary:

Farm machinery (Deere)
Heavy equipment (CAT, Cummins, GE,  ....)

Allis-Chalmers is now part of Siemens Energy and Automation.

Industrial supplies (Lincoln, MMM, GE, RPM, ....)
Defense equipment (Northrup Grumman, Raytheon, General Dynamics,
Lockheed Martin ....)

The military-industrial complex will never fade away.



Consumer products, tobacco (PG, Colgate, JNJ, MO, ....)
Pharma and Medical (JNJ, PFE, MRK, DNA, ....)
All things tech (Intel, AMD, CSCO, JNPR, AMAT, MTSN, MSFT,
Oracle .....)
Agriculture products, Chemicals, Coal
etc., etc.

I'm not saying the situation isn't serious, obviously we are bleeding
jobs.  Heck, I spend 3 nights a week on the phone with people in
China and Malaysia.  But let's not get all "the sky is falling", there
is plenty of time to turn things around.  A weak dollar is actually a
step in the right direction.

at (no spam) Jerry - Yup, you bring up some good examples but if you
believe UN stats we still manufacture quite a bit, and the
number is growing not shrinking:

http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2008/09/23/top-manufacturing-coun...

We're losing (have lost?) the savvy to make mass-market goods at prices
that attract consumers. We have stiff competition in commodity
earth-moving equipment, but we're hanging on there. There are plenty of
Isuzu and Mercedes heavy trucks on our roads, but it's hardly a rout as
it was with cars.

We've dropped from a high of over 50% during WW2 to just over
25%, so its a shrinking slice of a growing pie.  Luckily the pie
is growing fast enough that our piece is still growing as well.

Long may it last!

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

On Oct 27, 11:14 am, Vladimir Vassilevsky <nos... at (no spam) nowhere.com> wrote:
Darrell wrote:
It is interesting to look at manufacturing in the U.S. All the "hi
tech" stuff is basically still built domestically.
Like what, for example?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States#Manufacturing

If wikipedia isn't a reputable source, here's a blog post for you:

http://caps.fool.com/Blogs/ViewPost.aspx?bpid=16947&t=01002854323337419044

Summary:

Farm machinery (Deere)
Heavy equipment (CAT, Cummins, GE, ....)

Industrial supplies (Lincoln, MMM, GE, RPM, ....)
Defense equipment (Northrup Grumman, Raytheon, General Dynamics,
Lockheed Martin ....)

Consumer products, tobacco (PG, Colgate, JNJ, MO, ....)
Pharma and Medical (JNJ, PFE, MRK, DNA, ....)
All things tech (Intel, AMD, CSCO, JNPR, AMAT, MTSN, MSFT,
Oracle .....)
Agriculture products, Chemicals, Coal
etc., etc.

I'm not saying the situation isn't serious, obviously we are bleeding
jobs. Heck, I spend 3 nights a week on the phone with people in
China and Malaysia. But let's not get all "the sky is falling", there
is plenty of time to turn things around. A weak dollar is actually a
step in the right direction.

at (no spam) Jerry - Yup, you bring up some good examples but if you
believe UN stats we still manufacture quite a bit, and the
number is growing not shrinking:

http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2008/09/23/top-manufacturing-countries-in-2007/

We've dropped from a high of over 50% during WW2 to just over
25%, so its a shrinking slice of a growing pie. Luckily the pie
is growing fast enough that our piece is still growing as well.

Hello comp.dsp,

I just watched this movie (yes, all 2 hrs 24 minutes of it) and would
like to know the opinions of others here on the veracity of the
information presented and the correctness of the allegations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

Is it down to savvy or something called an exchange rate? How is it
possible to compete with an economy that works with much lower
numbers? Where manufacturing seems to do ok is high quality gear or
something that's individually tailored. In other words *expensive*. I
rekon there's a market for that kind of thing but it's small. It's
difficult to see where the money comes from. No wonder we had
something called a "credit crunch" in the UK.

Fully Half Baked wrote:

   ...

Is it down to savvy or something called an exchange rate? How is it
possible to compete with an economy that works with much lower
numbers? Where manufacturing seems to do ok is high quality gear or
something that's individually tailored. In other words *expensive*. I
rekon there's a market for that kind of thing but it's small. It's
difficult to see where the money comes from. No wonder we had
something called a "credit crunch" in the UK.

People are equally savvy all over the world, and through time. An
average modern engineer is no smarter than an average medieval monk. The
difference is the assumptions they make and the accumulated knowledge
that shapes them. In this country, corporate actions are strongly
influenced by next quarter's stock quotations. In countries where next
year's -- and the years' after -- healthy operation drive policy, the
outcome is often better. Companies and countries are run not by the
rules they make, but by the way they award Brownie points. We're in
trouble.http://tinyurl.com/yzfexz2http://tinyurl.com/yfhr9vx

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Questions/Comments:

  1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government organization?!?
  If so, shocking to me.

  2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
  manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".

  3. If true, what should we do about it?

--
Randy Yates                      % "The dreamer, the unwoken fool -
Digital Signal Labs              %  in dreams, no pain will kiss the brow..."
mailto://ya... at (no spam) ieee.org          %  http://www.digitalsignallabs.com% 'Eldorado Overture', *Eldorado*, ELO

Peter K. wrote:
Hi Randy,

Interesting video! I haven't watched it all, but bits and pieces.

On 25 Oct, 15:39, Randy Yates <ya... at (no spam) ieee.org> wrote:
Questions/Comments:

  1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government organization?!?
  If so, shocking to me.

This seems to say otherwise:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/frseries/frseri.htm

it was created by an act of congress, and the President appoints, the
Senate confirms members.

  2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
  manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".

Warming is happening.

  3. If true, what should we do about it?

I don't know. It's not clear that any of the suggested remedies (e.g.
Kyoto protocol) are actually going to have any effect.

I don't know how these canards start. Some of it is clearly malice and
some may be wishful thinking. Most, I'm afraid arise from profound
ignorance and abiding distrust.

There's a tee shirt around that proposes
a return to McCarthyism in order to defeat "Obama's Communism."

Media
figures and politicians were calling doctor-patient end-of-life-care
conferences paid for by Medicare "Death Panels" of doctors who had the
power to enforce euthanasia long after their true nature was explained
in detail.

There are still crazies who don't believe that Obama isn't a
US citizen.

Do they know that McCain was born in Panama?

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Hi Randy,

Interesting video! I haven't watched it all, but bits and pieces.

On 25 Oct, 15:39, Randy Yates <ya... at (no spam) ieee.org> wrote:
Questions/Comments:

1. Is the Federal Reserve Bank REALLY a non-government organization?!?
If so, shocking to me.

This seems to say otherwise:

http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/frseries/frseri.htm

it was created by an act of congress, and the President appoints, the
Senate confirms members.

2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".

Warming is happening.

3. If true, what should we do about it?

I don't know. It's not clear that any of the suggested remedies (e.g.
Kyoto protocol) are actually going to have any effect.

Hi Randy,

Interesting video! I haven't watched it all, but bits and pieces.

On 25 Oct, 15:39, Randy Yates <ya... at (no spam) ieee.org> wrote:
[snip]

2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".

Warming is happening.

Peter K. wrote:
Hi Randy,

Interesting video! I haven't watched it all, but bits and pieces.

On 25 Oct, 15:39, Randy Yates <ya... at (no spam) ieee.org> wrote:
[snip]

  2. I've thought for a long time the "global warming" crisis was
  manufactured. Or at least that there really wasn't a "consensus".

Warming is happening.

Are you *SURE* ? ???