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| Computers Forum Index » Computer - Databases - Oracle (Server) » Backup Oracle, With or Without RMAN... |
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| Fabrice... |
 Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:06 am |
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Guest
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Hello,
I'm wondering if I have to use RMAN today.
Sorry for my long post, but I have a "big" interrogation with rman.
thanks.
1. For the moment, I backup my database without RMAN : but with commands of
the system files.
--> Every night the database is stopped by a shutdown immediate. All the
files of my production database are copied via network on a third backup
server (The server is in an other place).
I keep one week of backup set.
Each days my backup set is : all the datafiles, the controlfiles, the
redologs, the redologs archieved, init and pfile , and password file.
Beside that, I realize some logical export that I can imort in another
database. I have also a physical standby.
Today, If my production server crash, I tell me that I can buy a new server,
reinstall Oracle with the same configuration and get a set of my backup
from the network by copying the file in their place.
I'don't speak about my standby. In my mind I have always a set of all the
files of the production database in other place and physical cold files.
2. Can I do the same thing with RMAN.
I'm not conformtable with it.
In my mind RMAN is a black hole.
--> If I want to realize a cold backup of my database (as in the point 1)
and keep all the files of my prod database in a third server, is it
possible ?
For me, it seems that RMAN backup on a local disk ? What do do you do if the
server is out ? In the worst scenario, can we get the files backup by RMAN
without RMAN and copy by commands of the system file all the files (backup
with rman) of the database in an other server with the same configuration.
Do RMAN realise a copy of the files of the database ?
Can we apply a full backup of a database in an another server (for example a
rebuild server) with an new and clean installation.
Example :
.. You backup your database all the day. A full backup with RMAN.
--> (Where do you put the files ?)
.. The third day, the server is out. You can't restart it.
.. You have an another physical server.
.. You realize a new installation of Oracle 10g.
.. You install the same instance, same configuration, name and location for
the files.
.. Now can you get the files backup with rman and put it in place to restart
the instance and have a database in the time of the last nigt backup.
For the moment I can do that with my copy of all my files.
Thanks for your help.
Fabrice |
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| hpuxrac... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:51 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 17, 3:06 am, Fabrice <t... at (no spam) test.com> wrote:
Quote: Hello,
I'm wondering if I have to use RMAN today.
Sorry for my long post, but I have a "big" interrogation with rman.
thanks.
1. For the moment, I backup my database without RMAN : but with commands of
the system files.
--> Every night the database is stopped by a shutdown immediate. All the
files of my production database are copied via network on a third backup
server (The server is in an other place).
I keep one week of backup set.
Each days my backup set is : all the datafiles, the controlfiles, the
redologs, the redologs archieved, init and pfile , and password file.
Beside that, I realize some logical export that I can imort in another
database. I have also a physical standby.
Today, If my production server crash, I tell me that I can buy a new server,
reinstall Oracle with the same configuration and get a set of my backup
from the network by copying the file in their place.
I'don't speak about my standby. In my mind I have always a set of all the
files of the production database in other place and physical cold files.
2. Can I do the same thing with RMAN.
I'm not conformtable with it.
In my mind RMAN is a black hole.
--> If I want to realize a cold backup of my database (as in the point 1)
and keep all the files of my prod database in a third server, is it
possible ?
For me, it seems that RMAN backup on a local disk ? What do do you do if the
server is out ? In the worst scenario, can we get the files backup by RMAN
without RMAN and copy by commands of the system file all the files (backup
with rman) of the database in an other server with the same configuration..
Do RMAN realise a copy of the files of the database ?
Can we apply a full backup of a database in an another server (for example a
rebuild server) with an new and clean installation.
Example :
. You backup your database all the day. A full backup with RMAN.
--> (Where do you put the files ?)
. The third day, the server is out. You can't restart it.
. You have an another physical server.
. You realize a new installation of Oracle 10g.
. You install the same instance, same configuration, name and location for
the files.
. Now can you get the files backup with rman and put it in place to restart
the instance and have a database in the time of the last nigt backup.
For the moment I can do that with my copy of all my files.
Thanks for your help.
Fabrice
You can certainly do good plausible useable backups without rman. You
can do cold backups without rman ( like you do ) and you can do hot
backups while the database is up without rman.
Any of the backups that one might do without rman can also be done
with rman.
If you have tested and documented your backup and recovery scenarios
( and re test them regularly ) well you are way ahead of where most
sites are even if they are using rman.
That being said ... rman is the way to go 98 percent of the time.
There are however a number of the recover commands that I often run in
sqlplus for various reasons.
Instead of having doubts and having worries about rman why not buy the
most recent Hart/Freeman RMAN book that is close to or at the release
level you are running and start getting your feet wet. You have to
have a test system and some resources and time at your disposal.
I for one find that having an rman based disk backup is something that
makes me sleep better at night. I also do have a "cold backup" of
some critical systems that is done storage system based ( very
quickly ) in a few minutes of weekly downtime "just in case". ( With
some storage systems one can get a clone ( not a snapshot ) of a large
database pretty dang fast ... if you have the storage ... why not ? ). |
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| Mark D Powell... |
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 3:14 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 17, 9:51 am, hpuxrac <johnbhur... at (no spam) sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Quote: On Oct 17, 3:06 am, Fabrice <t... at (no spam) test.com> wrote:
Hello,
I'm wondering if I have to use RMAN today.
Sorry for my long post, but I have a "big" interrogation with rman.
thanks.
1. For the moment, I backup my database without RMAN : but with commands of
the system files.
--> Every night the database is stopped by a shutdown immediate. All the
files of my production database are copied via network on a third backup
server (The server is in an other place).
I keep one week of backup set.
Each days my backup set is : all the datafiles, the controlfiles, the
redologs, the redologs archieved, init and pfile , and password file.
Beside that, I realize some logical export that I can imort in another
database. I have also a physical standby.
Today, If my production server crash, I tell me that I can buy a new server,
reinstall Oracle with the same configuration and get a set of my backup
from the network by copying the file in their place.
I'don't speak about my standby. In my mind I have always a set of all the
files of the production database in other place and physical cold files..
2. Can I do the same thing with RMAN.
I'm not conformtable with it.
In my mind RMAN is a black hole.
--> If I want to realize a cold backup of my database (as in the point 1)
and keep all the files of my prod database in a third server, is it
possible ?
For me, it seems that RMAN backup on a local disk ? What do do you do if the
server is out ? In the worst scenario, can we get the files backup by RMAN
without RMAN and copy by commands of the system file all the files (backup
with rman) of the database in an other server with the same configuration.
Do RMAN realise a copy of the files of the database ?
Can we apply a full backup of a database in an another server (for example a
rebuild server) with an new and clean installation.
Example :
. You backup your database all the day. A full backup with RMAN.
--> (Where do you put the files ?)
. The third day, the server is out. You can't restart it.
. You have an another physical server.
. You realize a new installation of Oracle 10g.
. You install the same instance, same configuration, name and location for
the files.
. Now can you get the files backup with rman and put it in place to restart
the instance and have a database in the time of the last nigt backup.
For the moment I can do that with my copy of all my files.
Thanks for your help.
Fabrice
You can certainly do good plausible useable backups without rman. You
can do cold backups without rman ( like you do ) and you can do hot
backups while the database is up without rman.
Any of the backups that one might do without rman can also be done
with rman.
If you have tested and documented your backup and recovery scenarios
( and re test them regularly ) well you are way ahead of where most
sites are even if they are using rman.
That being said ... rman is the way to go 98 percent of the time.
There are however a number of the recover commands that I often run in
sqlplus for various reasons.
Instead of having doubts and having worries about rman why not buy the
most recent Hart/Freeman RMAN book that is close to or at the release
level you are running and start getting your feet wet. You have to
have a test system and some resources and time at your disposal.
I for one find that having an rman based disk backup is something that
makes me sleep better at night. I also do have a "cold backup" of
some critical systems that is done storage system based ( very
quickly ) in a few minutes of weekly downtime "just in case". ( With
some storage systems one can get a clone ( not a snapshot ) of a large
database pretty dang fast ... if you have the storage ... why not ? ).- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
With 11g the Oracle Enterprise Manager relies on rman for most of the
automatic diagnostic recovery feature actions. So if you are an EM
shop this is one more reason to use rman for your backups.
We still use manual hot backups on most of our databases because we
wrote our backups scripts long ago and have used the backups for
recovery so making a change requires a lot of justification and
approvals. Also we pipe our backup files into compress and untill 10g
you could not compress the backups as part of the process. Advanced
compression for use by rman is also an extra cost item.
Still, using rman for your backups should be given regular
consideration. If you have multiple databases there is not reason you
cannot switch backups methods over time as you do upgrades and new
installations.
HTH -- Mark D Powell -- |
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| Hemant K Chitale... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:28 am |
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Guest
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Mark,
Backup Compression in RMAN can be done without the Advanced
Compression option as well.
That is how it has been available in 10gR2. Advanced Compression in
11g introduces a new compression algorithm
which speeds up compressed backups, but isn't strictly necessary.
(FWIW : I've found non-compressed backups faster than compressed
backups in 10gR2, so I guess you are referring to Advanced Compression
for the performance itself ?)
Hemant K Chitale
On Oct 17, 11:14 pm, Mark D Powell <Mark.Powe... at (no spam) hp.com> wrote:
Quote: Also we pipe our backup files into compress and untill 10g
you could not compress the backups as part of the process. Advanced
compression for use by rman is also an extra cost item.
HTH -- Mark D Powell --- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text - |
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| joel garry... |
| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:42 pm |
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Guest
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On Oct 17, 12:06 am, Fabrice <t... at (no spam) test.com> wrote:
Quote: Hello,
I'm wondering if I have to use RMAN today.
Sorry for my long post, but I have a "big" interrogation with rman.
thanks.
1. For the moment, I backup my database without RMAN : but with commands of
the system files.
--> Every night the database is stopped by a shutdown immediate. All the
files of my production database are copied via network on a third backup
server (The server is in an other place).
So, what happens if there is some big rollback going on? Do you kill
off processes to be sure nothing will stop it from going down? Do you
ever have to shutdown abort? Which version/platform, anyways?
Quote: I keep one week of backup set.
Each days my backup set is : all the datafiles, the controlfiles, the
redologs, the redologs archieved, init and pfile , and password file.
Beside that, I realize some logical export that I can imort in another
database. I have also a physical standby.
Today, If my production server crash, I tell me that I can buy a new server,
reinstall Oracle with the same configuration and get a set of my backup
from the network by copying the file in their place.
I'don't speak about my standby. In my mind I have always a set of all the
files of the production database in other place and physical cold files.
2. Can I do the same thing with RMAN.
I'm not conformtable with it.
In my mind RMAN is a black hole.
Well, that's more a reflection of your mind, eh? :-)
Think about what RMAN stands for: Recovery Manager. Recovery is more
important than backup, right?
Check out the 10g basic recovery manual.
Quote: --> If I want to realize a cold backup of my database (as in the point 1)
and keep all the files of my prod database in a third server, is it
possible ?
You don't really have to do cold backups. You can if you want, but
don't be scared of fuzziness. They've pretty much figured it out by
now!
Quote: For me, it seems that RMAN backup on a local disk ? What do do you do if the
server is out ? In the worst scenario, can we get the files backup by RMAN
without RMAN and copy by commands of the system file all the files (backup
with rman) of the database in an other server with the same configuration..
Do RMAN realise a copy of the files of the database ?
Can we apply a full backup of a database in an another server (for example a
rebuild server) with an new and clean installation.
Not only that, but at least in the newer versions there are
capabilities to make it simpler. Duplicate database is real handy for
some things.
Quote:
Example :
. You backup your database all the day. A full backup with RMAN.
--> (Where do you put the files ?)
You can tell it where, or use the 10gR2 style flash recovery area:
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B19306_01/server.102/b14196/backrest001.htm#sthref622
I've found that is really handy, it not only works simply and reliably
once you understand all the idiosyncrasies for your own configuration,
but there is also a population out there of people who understand it
too.
My overgeneralized opinion is, 9i maybe yes, maybe no if you have
something working and tested, 10g definitely RMAN unless you have some
special reason not to. (But I agree with hpuxrac about the storage
solution, if you have that).
Quote:
. The third day, the server is out. You can't restart it.
. You have an another physical server.
. You realize a new installation of Oracle 10g.
. You install the same instance, same configuration, name and location for
the files.
. Now can you get the files backup with rman and put it in place to restart
the instance and have a database in the time of the last nigt backup.
Yeah, my boss wants Oracle to work like dbase, too. All this
newfangled transactional backups, who needs it? :-)
Quote:
For the moment I can do that with my copy of all my files.
Thanks for your help.
Fabrice
I'm getting about 10:1 compression with the standard 10gR2 backup,
very fast, compressed files are faster to move around networks, too.
jg
--
at (no spam) home.com is bogus.
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm186861.htm |
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