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Kodak v Sun; patent law gone all wrong?

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Ldy
Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:37 pm
Guest
If in 1995 Sun Microsystems, Inc. changed the name of OAK to Java and
modified the code for the Internet, how did Sun infringe the patents
Kodak acquired from 'Wang' in 1997? What damning evidence did Kodak have
that in 1995, Sun incorporated the 'Khoyi' method, thereby infringed the
patents?

The "Khoyi patents", named after Dana Khoyi - an ex-Wang engineer,
"covered a method by which a program can get help from another computer
application to complete a task", which they claim is the way Java
operates and that Sun has therefore infringed the Khoyi patents..

Whose intellectual property is Java? Surely Java was patented in 1995,
just after the change? Were the Wang 'Khoyi' patents and Sun 'Java'
patents identical? I take it Wang patented their software years before
Sun did? Does anyone know what year?
If the two were identical or similar, isn't it possible that in a world
of 6,395,379,218 people, it is more than likely that two or more people
might have the same ideas? I find it difficult to believe that Sun
infringed Kodak's patents, but rather that Kodak got a little too
desperate given it's not doing so well in this 'digital' age and had to
lay off some 15,000 jobs worldwide a month ago "because of declining
demand for consumer film and colour photographic paper"..

How on earth can an eight member jury of lay people understand "patent
law" to deliberate and find in favour of Kodak? I don't understand how a
jury could possibly fathom the complexities of patent law, without any
background or education in the legal arena, and find in Kodak's favour?

There are a lot of questions that I have to things that don't add up,
like; Java is freely downloadable, so how can any jury find in favour of
Kodak who wanted damages of $1.06 billion in past royalties??
How did Kodak prove that Sun had access to its patents?
If Kodak is so sure that Sun infringed patents, why did it bother to
agree to the $92 million settlement? Surely they believed they would be
awarded $1.06 billion or even more..? accepting such a small amount (for
them) is silly, it sounds to me like they thought they wouldn't win..

This case is a perfect example why juries should NOT be involved in
patent suits.

Sun should not have settled the case, it should have seen the case
through and appealed the prospective travesty of justice..

Does anyone agree with me here? I'd be interested in other people's
opinions on this issue. A public debate, anyone?
 
Ldy
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:37 am
Guest
Thanks for your response.:)

Tim Tyler wrote:
Quote:
Ldy <ldy@yahoo.com> wrote or quoted:


If in 1995 Sun Microsystems, Inc. changed the name of OAK to Java and
modified the code for the Internet, how did Sun infringe the patents
Kodak acquired from 'Wang' in 1997? What damning evidence did Kodak have
that in 1995, Sun incorporated the 'Khoyi' method, thereby infringed the
patents?


The 'Khoyi' method appears to be very general. Practically every OO
language appears to infringe it.

Presumably a defense involving invoking Smalltalk failed, however.


The "Khoyi patents", named after Dana Khoyi - an ex-Wang engineer,
"covered a method by which a program can get help from another computer
application to complete a task", which they claim is the way Java
operates and that Sun has therefore infringed the Khoyi patents..

Whose intellectual property is Java? Surely Java was patented in 1995,
just after the change?


Simple to check that - just visit:

http://www.sun.com/legal/patents/


Were the Wang 'Khoyi' patents and Sun 'Java' patents identical? I take
it Wang patented their software years before Sun did? Does anyone know
what year?


US Patent 5,206,951 filed: 1991-04-03
US Patent 5,206,951 granted: 1993-04-27


If the two were identical or similar, isn't it possible that in a world
of 6,395,379,218 people, it is more than likely that two or more people
might have the same ideas?


Sure. If you have the idea after the original idea was patented,
you are supposed to perform a patent search - and then pay license
fees if you want to do any development based on the idea.


How did Kodak prove that Sun had access to its patents?


Patents are public. Under law, it is the re-inventer's responsibilty to
research them, when pursuing an idea.
 
Tim Tyler
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:37 am
Guest
Ldy <ldy@yahoo.com> wrote or quoted:

Quote:
If in 1995 Sun Microsystems, Inc. changed the name of OAK to Java and
modified the code for the Internet, how did Sun infringe the patents
Kodak acquired from 'Wang' in 1997? What damning evidence did Kodak have
that in 1995, Sun incorporated the 'Khoyi' method, thereby infringed the
patents?

The 'Khoyi' method appears to be very general. Practically every OO
language appears to infringe it.

Presumably a defense involving invoking Smalltalk failed, however.

Quote:
The "Khoyi patents", named after Dana Khoyi - an ex-Wang engineer,
"covered a method by which a program can get help from another computer
application to complete a task", which they claim is the way Java
operates and that Sun has therefore infringed the Khoyi patents..

Whose intellectual property is Java? Surely Java was patented in 1995,
just after the change?

Simple to check that - just visit:

http://www.sun.com/legal/patents/

Quote:
Were the Wang 'Khoyi' patents and Sun 'Java' patents identical? I take
it Wang patented their software years before Sun did? Does anyone know
what year?

US Patent 5,206,951 filed: 1991-04-03
US Patent 5,206,951 granted: 1993-04-27

Quote:
If the two were identical or similar, isn't it possible that in a world
of 6,395,379,218 people, it is more than likely that two or more people
might have the same ideas?

Sure. If you have the idea after the original idea was patented,
you are supposed to perform a patent search - and then pay license
fees if you want to do any development based on the idea.

Quote:
How did Kodak prove that Sun had access to its patents?

Patents are public. Under law, it is the re-inventer's responsibilty to
research them, when pursuing an idea.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ tim@tt1lock.org Remove lock to reply.
 
Bruce Lewis
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:40 pm
Guest
Ldy <ldy@yahoo.com> writes:

Quote:
Sun should not have settled the case, it should have seen the case
through and appealed the prospective travesty of justice..

That might have brought more exposure to the fact that every patent that
covers an algorithm for a general-purpose digital computer is invalid.
Sun's shareholders don't want that. Investors prefer monopolies over
the free market because the free market brings uncertainty.

--
Make that pile of digital photos presentable: http://ourdoings.com/
It's quicker and easier than you think.
 
 
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